My Harbor Freight buffer buying story - teaching proper customer service!

First, I agree that talking with the right people gets the right response.
Second, read the whole add. With HF,it often says " In Store Only". If they have your email address, they know where your local store is.
Third, you shouldn't get mad at someone saying "NO" when they don't have the authority to say, "YES". The 17 year old at the checkout, and the $6.00/hr lady on the phone aren't the owner.... and they don't set the prices.

I run a retail business. I have often heard people say that we are obliged by law to sell an item that is mis-priced on the ticket, or mis-quoted by a sales associate. This is not true. No business, regardless of how much they make a year, is required by law to sell anything at less than they deem profitable. Bait and switch is an entirely different thing. If I offer a 1ct diamond ring at $500 and when the customer comes in I say, "Sorry, that is sold out", ( and I never sold any at that price) , then that is illegal. I still am not required by law to sell the item, but can be reported.

All that said, If I make a mistake, I try as hard as possible to make it right. I have done work at cost ( and occasionally at below cost) because someone quoted the cost price, not the retail. I did it because that is good business, not because anyone threatened me or there is a law making me do it.

Final comment, If you can not get satisfaction from the customer service person you are talking to, don't get upset. Calmly ask to speak to their supervisor. This will often resolve the problem.
 
I agree with Craig. A misprint in a sales paper is one thing, because a third party printing company is involved. An on line price or a posted price in a store should be honored as a quoted price. In business, you screw up a quote, you eat it.
 
My bet is that any one of you, if you skipped a zero, and priced a custom knife on your web site at $30, instead of $300 would be thinking differently if a customer was trying to force you to sell it at the incorrectly advertised price.
Again, I'm no big HF fan. Their customer service lines are outsourced to India. When you call they answer, "Thank you for calling Harbor Freight. This is Steve Johnson." in an obvious Indian accent. They may be doing "bait and switch"-I don't know.
But trying to take advantage of someone's mistake, or using customer service as an excuse to get a discount or something for free is classless. It is an attitude that is far too prevalent today.
 
Those of you who regard this as "wrong" or "not ethical" I ask you this. Say you were the customer that I used in the example before who came in to Lowe's to buy a saw, seen that the price was spectacular, and off you went to the register to pay for it. Upon ringing it up , the price shows $59.99 instead of the $39.00 printed clearly on the shelf tag.

Would you honestly, seriously, pay $20 more than the advertised price? I think not. Unless you are the type that would just as well say "screw it", you most certainly would inform one of the managers of the pricing mistake. And they, because it is the company's duty to ensure they have happy customers, would sell it to you for the advertised price. Most supervisors in that predicament would have done it without the customer asking once it was brought to their attention.

I simply gave their lacking customer service department a nudge in the correct direction.

Would someone be reprimanded for not correcting the price? Possibly. But, nothing more than "hey...this is what happened, please try not to let it happen again". If we're talking about thousands of dollars lost on a mistake...then it gets to be a little different on how the employee is handled.

Case in point, I accidentally read some measurements wrong when ordering a window package for a customer of mine....$7,500 worth of windows. They came in, and obviously didn't work. We're human, we make mistakes. But it cost the store about 3 or 4 thousand dollars in windows. I was spoken to by my sales manager, but it was nothing more than a verbal slap on the wrist. Now, if the same employee continues to make the same mistakes...then they get dealt with accordingly.

Sure, I will admit that my last couple of emails bordered on threatening. My reason? Because they tried to pawn off an excuse for one and then tried to blow me off hoping I would forget about it. Those are 2 things you do NOT do when trying to keep customers happy. First, admit you made the mistake, don't make excuses. Second, do NOT and I mean DO NOT just blow the customer off hoping that they will simply forget about it. All that does is allow the customer to sit and get madder and madder until eventually they boil over and ream the first person they get a hold of....usually, some 18 year old girl fresh out of high school. Seen it happen too many times.
 
KB1SYV said:
Rick,

I know it might have started out that way, but I think that this price thing is something more than that. I think what they might be doing is trying to reign you in with an absurdly low price and claim that it didn't exist or was a mistake hoping that you need it and will still buy it at the retail price. Working in just percentages, imagine how many people will say, "screw it" and buy it anyway.
That is what I'm having the problem with, it's not a mistake, but a purposeful means to deceive. Basically "Fraud"

Jeff
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Right.
 
To each his own. I mis priced a knife on my table at a show, and honored the price. Cost me $100. The same person ended up buying 4 more knives over the next two years. Could have been a one time thing, but it worked out. If I make a mistake, it's my problem. I don't try to make it one for someone else.
 
I can assure you that I have lots of retail experience- more than most people.
There is something fundamentally wrong with taking advantage of someone else's mistake.
I have spoken to many executives when making complaints. When offered a "freebie" for my trouble, I tell them the purpose of my call was to get the mistake corrected, not to get something for free.
 
I think good business ethics go both ways.... or else its a bad relationship. "The customer is always right" is a BS dogma, most likey conjured up by folks trying to take advantage. It is not the seller's DUTY to make you happy. You aren't ENTITLED to good service. It is in the seller's best interest to make their customers happy but not an obligation. One company I worked for was having financial difficulties. We hired an outside consultant to help us figure it out. They told us about the 80/20 rule. In most cases... of your entire customer base, there is only about 20% that your actual sales come from. The other 80% are usually just lost quotes and futile dealings. We narrowed down our "good" customers and found that even within them we had difficult, high maintenence accounts. After all was said and done, we dropped 80% of our customer base, concentrated on our prefered accounts, which left more time to drum up new business and fresh sales. It saved the company. You can't run a successful business catering to problem customers.

You acted as if you were OWED this price and if you weren't given what you wanted, you were going to go out of your way to soil the name of the company. You even threatened to go to the CEO. You sir, are a bad customer. You were lucky in the fact that you were dealt with the easiest way they could.... "Give him what he wants and make him go away." THAT is not good business. You might just as well fake a slip-n-fall in the store and threaten a law suit. That'll get you some sweet customer service.

I'm not trying to put HF on a pedestal... there are a lot of issues with major corporations these days. (I try to avoid them if I can) I wish it was like the good ol days of small business. When merchants/artisans simply sold there goods for what they needed to make a decent living and appreciated the customers who frequented their establishment. A time when customers appreciated what goods and skills the merchant had to offer. You did good business because the guy you sold to today, might be the guy you buy from tomorrow.

Okay, I'm really tired and starting to drift.

Again, I mean no personal offence to GrizzlyBear..... just arguing the other side of the coin.

Rick
 
Rick, I understand what you're trying to say. However, with my case, I was completely through with the order and under the full impression that the buffer was being sold for $49.00. It was after the fact, after the checkout had been completed and my credit card info given that they told me of the price difference.

I equate this to standing in line at a store with an item; getting to the cashier and ringing up the item; agreeing to the total and handing them cash to pay for it; but, before leaving the store I'm stopped by someone at the door who wants me to pay MORE money than what was agreed to. That is just, simply, not right any way you look at it.

The "threats" are no more than someone would do in the above situation, they would go to the head person in charge to get the issue rectified. Btw, I never said I was going to soil the name of the company...I just showed them other instances where their customer service, or lack there of, was so immense, it caused a person to build an entire website devoted to warning customers away from HF.

As with anything, there are always multiple sides to look at. However, knowing what I know when it comes to retail, I knew they were blowing smoke up my butt and feeding me excuses.
 
Magnussen said:
I wish it was like the good ol days of small business. When merchants/artisans simply sold there goods for what they needed to make a decent living and appreciated the customers who frequented their establishment. A time when customers appreciated what goods and skills the merchant had to offer. You did good business because the guy you sold to today, might be the guy you buy from tomorrow.

Rick
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I'm up past my bed time too, so I'm going to bed after this statement. You brought up a good point. But I think it would work the other way as well. If times were still that all business was face to face like it used to be, there would be better relationships on both sides. You wouldn't have a customer insisting on being charged the falsely advertised price, but also you wouldn't have the seller playing these asinine games trying to defraud the customer. It goes both ways. I'll tell you what, I can accept a mistake, hell I'd give the shirt off my back to anyone who needed it, but I will not be screwed with, stolen from, or defrauded without a fight. I believe these guy's are preying on people who don't know any better and that's sad.

Good Night Everybody!!!


Jeff
 
I can respect that Craig... I was not in the situation, so I really can't claim that point of view. Cheers.

Rick
 
KB1SYV said:
I'm up past my bed time too, so I'm going to bed after this statement. You brought up a good point. But I think it would work the other way as well. If times were still that all business was face to face like it used to be, there would be better relationships on both sides. You wouldn't have a customer insisting on being charged the falsely advertised price, but also you wouldn't have the seller playing these asinine games trying to defraud the customer. It goes both ways. I'll tell you what, I can accept a mistake, hell I'd give the shirt off my back to anyone who needed it, but I will not be screwed with, stolen from, or defrauded without a fight. I believe these guy's are preying on people who don't know any better and that's sad.

Good Night Everybody!!!


Jeff
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Good night Jeff, thanks for your input on everything!

Rick- Cool, and no disrespect taken from your other post either :) We're all grown ups and we all have opinions ;)
 
Magnussen said:
I think good business ethics go both ways.... or else its a bad relationship. "The customer is always right" is a BS dogma, most likey conjured up by folks trying to take advantage. It is not the seller's DUTY to make you happy. You aren't ENTITLED to good service. It is in the seller's best interest to make their customers happy but not an obligation. One company I worked for was having financial difficulties. We hired an outside consultant to help us figure it out. They told us about the 80/20 rule. In most cases... of your entire customer base, there is only about 20% that your actual sales come from. The other 80% are usually just lost quotes and futile dealings. We narrowed down our "good" customers and found that even within them we had difficult, high maintenence accounts. After all was said and done, we dropped 80% of our customer base, concentrated on our prefered accounts, which left more time to drum up new business and fresh sales. It saved the company. You can't run a successful business catering to problem customers.
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AMEN.

I have been self employed for about 30 years now. That is an epiphany that took me about 5 years of pain to realize. I now have a customer "profile", and I cater to them.

For years I was really sick of those who acted as if they did me a big favor by letting me do work for them after I got it for having the best bid in an open competition.

It was a bid process; a contract. I didn't get the work because it was a gift, charity from a client, or as a reward. I got it because of my pricing and reputation. I was pleased to get the work, but I don't feel like I have to kiss anyone's butt because I was the most aggressively priced.

Magnussen said:
You acted as if you were OWED this price and if you weren't given what you wanted, you were going to go out of your way to soil the name of the company. You even threatened to go to the CEO. You sir, are a bad customer. You were lucky in the fact that you were dealt with the easiest way they could.... "Give him what he wants and make him go away." THAT is not good business. You might just as well fake a slip-n-fall in the store and threaten a law suit. That'll get you some sweet customer service.
Click to expand...


I guess I am getting too crotchety. I feel like it is my responsibility to work with my clients in a reasonable and responsible manner. I expect the same from them. I don't expect them to try to take advantage of me, but some still give it a whirl. If my clients are reasonable in their expectations, the can expect the same from me.

If I am threatened, or they try to back me into a corner I will make sure they pay many times over for that. I won't be threatened without a response. Even as with the grinder, when I was threatened in a veiled, passive aggressive way, I would probably take issue. On the other hand, I have done what Rick described, and made the problem go away by paying the people off. On inexpensive issues, I just have better, more important things to do. I always think, "if it is that important to this petty little person to waste day after day on this small amount... I will never be rid of him, even though he is clearly outside the scope of our contract". Then I pay them off with what they want.

They crow like a barnyard rooster because they got what they wanted. I am sure they tell their friends about how they held "that contractor" to the fire to make him do what they wanted. That's fine; these aren't my repeat customers anyway. I usually do what they want, and then cancel their extended company warranty (not the state mandated warranty) on their repairs or services since we are out of contract, and thus technically voided contract as per the written language they agreed to when signing.

Two can play that game.

I have been reading this silliness about HF using a bait and switch scheme on the grinders. REALLY? HONESTLY?

Since many of these sales are regional sales (the reason they don't honor internet prices at the stores, and the reason stores don't honor internet prices unless they want) how many grinders do you guys think they will sell?

Say the grinder cost them $60. If they had the incredible markup of 35% (feel free retail guys to point out the normal markup on tools is anywhere from 12 - 20%) and they were making $20 a machine on them, what would they wind up with? After expenses, what would they net, half of that? $10? $15? Even if they sold 5000 of those grinders (not likely) would it be worth the time and effort for $50K or a bit more? Doubtful.

I read somewhere that they have about 325 stores, but don't remember the actual millions of sales they gross.

But if you take the $50K for the "scam" they perpetrated and divided it by the number of stores, do you really think they would take all the time and hassle to do that for about $150 a store? That of course would be that the sold 15 grinders in every single store across the nation to get that $150. (Do the math to find the net...) Their "scheme" only gets them barely double digits to sneak off with?

How ridiculous.

But then, this group does like a good conspiracy theory.

Robert
 
Robert,

You do make a good case, but it makes a small hole in this group's "conspiracy theory", you have to remember, it's just not grinders. I just had a situation. I know of several other people, who I had just blown off as bad luck. What if it was hundreds of different items or thousands, do the math then. Would it be so ridiculous then? I really don't want to use this forum to breed hate and discontent, so I think I'm going to count my losses and go to my corner on this one. I fully respect the self-employed people who are voicing an opposition. You need to remember that not every business out there is as honorable as yours is.

Jeff
 
GrizzlyBear said:
Those of you who regard this as "wrong" or "not ethical" I ask you this. Say you were the customer that I used in the example before who came in to Lowe's to buy a saw, seen that the price was spectacular, and off you went to the register to pay for it. Upon ringing it up , the price shows $59.99 instead of the $39.00 printed clearly on the shelf tag.

Would you honestly, seriously, pay $20 more than the advertised price? I think not. Unless you are the type that would just as well say "screw it",
Click to expand...

No, I like alot of people would walk back to where I got the saw and put it back on the shelf!!

You were never charged the extra money they just canceled the order, You were not being forced to buy the buffer and the higher price.
 
A shelf price mistake like that is considered false advertising and the company is liable for it. Same way with the online price.
 
If you're going to be comfortable accepting an item that was mistakenly marked down by the store, shouldn't you also be comfortable if you mistakenly overpay for an item? If you purchase an item in-store, get into the parking lot and realized that you paid more than the advertised price, would you just say, "Golly, my mistake." and move along? I overpaid for an item at Lowe's once. Mistook a $100 for a $1 bill. I know, I know, dumb, but I so rarely have a bill that large I didn't even think about it. The cashier ran out to the parking lot while I was getting in the truck to let me know about the mistake.

I don't think it's fair to assume that the mark-down was some sort of scam. Pure speculation. People aren't flawless and mistakes are made.
 
In any situation like this, as either a customer or a business representative, you never get to choose how the other side behaves, or get to dictate their operating/business ethics. Fact of life, there are crappy people out there waiting for you to cross their path so they can screw you, it happens every day.
Another fact of life is that honest folks make mistakes, and the result of these mistakes often end up in someone else's lap. This type of situation is not always easy to tell from the former, and I have eaten my own words more than once in learning this lesson. If I make an assumption any more I try to make it in favor of decency and hope I am not proven wrong.
I have been on the recieving end of both types of bad deals and have found that no matter the monetary/material outcome, I always walk away feeling better if I don't give myself any reason to second-guess my own behavior. If the other guy wants to deal sideways, that's his choice. I would rather get a bad deal, or a bad product, and have a clean concience, than the other way around.
One last thing I have learned is that if you weren't privy to the actual communication(s), then your opinion, while valid, may not be based on complete or accurate information, and therefore may not apply to the situation at hand. Judgements are best left to those directly involved, unless one cares to arbitrate.
If I may step up on a higher soapbox for a minute, the American public needs to pull their heads out and realize that where and how we spend our money controls a large portion of the world economy. Stop doing business with bad businesses, and the average quality of business will improve. Spend your money near home, and see if your neighbors, and yourself, aren't better off next year. The current economic climate and the prevalence of crooks in business today is enabled and fostered by our own ignorance.
 
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GrizzlyBear said:
A shelf price mistake like that is considered false advertising and the company is liable for it. Same way with the online price.
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They are NOT liable by law for mispriced items..... now, if it was proven by fact that they were using this pricing to phish for sales, then yes, they have broken the law.
 
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