my issues with kershaw

[bodog]

I have not found it to be true that 1. Kershaw knives are hard to sharpen, nor 2. they will not hold and edge. I find they are easy to sharpen, take the sharpest edge of any knives, and hold it very well. 14C28N will take a very sharp edge and hold it a while (maybe better than S30V), then will loose it and have a less sharp working edge (less than S30V). It is good stuff.

I have to say I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you have proof that 14c28n gets sharper than all other steels? Do you have any proof that 14c28n will be sharper longer than other steels? Is there really a difference between a working edge and any other edge? You can have varying levels of sharpness but it's not like there's different edges. I can get S110V just as sharp as 1095 as can many other people. The knife itself and the work performed will dictate which steel stays sharper longer. It's not like one is inherently better than another.

Some steels have very low amounts of carbides in the mix so they can get sharper without diamond or cubic boron nitride stones, I guess, and those low carbide steels are generally a little bit stronger at the apex because they don't have as much apex fracturing going on, but it's all relative to the kind of work you're doing with the blade that dictates how sharp it'll stay. Edge geometry, steel, and type of work performed are what guides just how sharp a knife can get and stay that way. A high carbide steel with thin geometry will last far longer than any low carbide steels slicing through, say, used carpet. A medium thin blade with low carbide steel will stay sharper than a high carbide steel push cutting through, say wood or hard plastic. A relatively obtuse edge on low carbide steel will last longer chopping up tree branches and punching through sheet metal. A high carbide steel with a somewhat obtuse grind will last longer cutting through drywall.

So your statement, while I'm sure you believe it, doesn't help us identify why you believe 14c28n is better than other steels aside from the fact that it's easier to sharpen than S30V, which I think most people would agree with you.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I want to like them i really do but every single one I've owned has been a bear to ger razor sharp. I have a s30v kershaw i bought from snap on and it won't get razor sharp. ...my manix2 sharpens good. Every kershaw ive had from Sandvik steel to this have all brrn hard to sharpen. Anyone else have this issue?

What tool(s) & methods are you using to sharpen the S30V? And for your Manix2 (what steel is this one?) and other knives, for that matter?

If anything, most any blade will benefit by thinning the edge grind at least a little bit (or a LOT, for some). I'm betting your Manix2's factory edge grind was already nicely thinned, as that can make a big difference in ease of maintenance sharpening, afterward. As already mentioned, most of it comes down to consistency of technique (holding a steady angle, and use of pressure) in making an edge sharper.

Regarding Kershaw's S30V, I have a Leek in that steel, and it pops hairs with the best of them. I did thin the edge grind on it (more than once), and have stropped it on wood with diamond compound (through 3/1µ). There was a definite threshold change in sharpness, after which an adequately thinned edge on it really made it sing. A diamond hone will be a great friend for this steel, for thinning & grinding, if you haven't already used it on this blade. I've yet to see any bad examples of Sandvik's steel either; they do it right, with a very clean process and fine-grained steels.


David

 

[PURPLEDC]

I have to say I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you have proof that 14c28n gets sharper than all other steels? Do you have any proof that 14c28n will be sharper longer than other steels? Is there really a difference between a working edge and any other edge? You can have varying levels of sharpness but it's not like there's different edges. I can get S110V just as sharp as 1095 as can many other people. The knife itself and the work performed will dictate which steel stays sharper longer. It's not like one is inherently better than another.

Some steels have very low amounts of carbides in the mix so they can get sharper without diamond or cubic boron nitride stones, I guess, and those low carbide steels are generally a little bit stronger at the apex because they don't have as much apex fracturing going on, but it's all relative to the kind of work you're doing with the blade that dictates how sharp it'll stay. Edge geometry, steel, and type of work performed are what guides just how sharp a knife can get and stay that way. A high carbide steel with thin geometry will last far longer than any low carbide steels slicing through, say, used carpet. A medium thin blade with low carbide steel will stay sharper than a high carbide steel push cutting through, say wood or hard plastic. A relatively obtuse edge on low carbide steel will last longer chopping up tree branches and punching through sheet metal. A high carbide steel with a somewhat obtuse grind will last longer cutting through drywall.

So your statement, while I'm sure you believe it, doesn't help us identify why you believe 14c28n is better than other steels aside from the fact that it's easier to sharpen than S30V, which I think most people would agree with you.

There are different edges. There are convex edges, hollow edges, flat ground edges. And varying angles of each. And yes a there is a difference between a working edge and a fine edge. At some point you polish an edge and remove the micro serrations that assist in certain types of cuts on certain materials. A working edge I have seen being refered to as a edge intentionally not taken to a polish as to keep the toothiness or an edge that has lost some of its keen sharpness relatively quickly compared to the less keen edge than can be maintained for longer periods of time without the need for resharpening.

 

[bodog]

There are different edges. There are convex edges, hollow edges, flat ground edges. And varying angles of each. And yes a there is a difference between a working edge and a fine edge. At some point you polish an edge and remove the micro serrations that assist in certain types of cuts on certain materials. A working edge I have seen being refered to as a edge intentionally not taken to a polish as to keep the toothiness or an edge that has lost some of its keen sharpness relatively quickly compared to the less keen edge than can be maintained for longer periods of time without the need for resharpening.

If you're talking about convex vs V vs chisel, then yeah, but that's not what I was talking about and I believe you know it. As far as the rest of your post that's not talking about a working edge vs an atom splitting edge, you're talking about purposefully creating a toothy edge for slicing cuts over a refined edge for push cuts. There's a difference and that's why I made sure to mention what I did and how I did it. I guess I wasn't clear enough, or maybe I should've written a three page essay on it when it's been covered by people far more knowledgeable than you and me.

 

[Micdanson88]

I have only had one issue with a Kai product in regards to sharpening and that was with elmax. But I dont believe it was an issue with the way they do elmax but rather I had never sharpened elmax before and I simply underestimated the steel and overestimated my ability. Sometimes we simply have to swallow our pride and admit we need some education and practice.

+2....

 

[FW JSB]

All my Kershaw's have come out filthy sharp after a session on the WEPS, from a $10 model to a $90 model.

 

[FW JSB]

I've also found it easy to put a razor sharp edge on a knife equiped with 14C28N. It's a good steel and not as prone to chipping as some of the so-called super steels.

 

[FW JSB]

If you're talking about convex vs V vs chisel, then yeah, but that's not what I was talking about and I believe you know it. As far as the rest of your post that's not talking about a working edge vs an atom splitting edge, you're talking about purposefully creating a toothy edge for slicing cuts over a refined edge for push cuts. There's a difference and that's why I made sure to mention what I did and how I did it. I guess I wasn't clear enough, or maybe I should've written a three page essay on it when it's been covered by people far more knowledgeable than you and me.

Well, you came pretty close to a 3-page essay. A working edge can also refer to what is left after that just-off-the-sharpener has worn down. S30V is known for maintaining good cutting perfomance after losing its intial razor sharpness. Other less hard steels may not do as well in that regard.

A working edge can also refer to what you mentioned, one that is sharpened to the point of having a less refined edge, say 600 grit versus 1600 grit, or something similar. However, when I get done sharpening a blade to 600, which is as far as I go with most of my knives, it easliy push cuts phone book paper, so you may be overstating things.

 

[PURPLEDC]

If you're talking about convex vs V vs chisel, then yeah, but that's not what I was talking about and I believe you know it. As far as the rest of your post that's not talking about a working edge vs an atom splitting edge, you're talking about purposefully creating a toothy edge for slicing cuts over a refined edge for push cuts. There's a difference and that's why I made sure to mention what I did and how I did it. I guess I wasn't clear enough, or maybe I should've written a three page essay on it when it's been covered by people far more knowledgeable than you and me.

The only thing that even triggered a response from me was this statement that to me seemed pretty clear, "You can have varying levels of sharpness but it's not like there's different edges" that is an unedited statement made by you, and its false. As far as the three page essay thing? Im not going to entertain your snark.

 

[yepimonfire]

I want to like them i really do but every single one I've owned has been a bear to ger razor sharp. I have a s30v kershaw i bought from snap on and it won't get razor sharp. ...my manix2 sharpens good. Every kershaw ive had from Sandvik steel to this have all brrn hard to sharpen. Anyone else have this issue?

S30v cannot be sharpened with regular stones, all the bevel setting and scratch removal can be done with it, but ultimately you must either finish the edge with diamond or initially sharpen with diamond to get a sharp edge because the carbide are too hard to be honed by anything else. My blur in s30v does not come off my 8k waterstone serviceable, however once I hit it with 8k diamond strop s and 14k, it's razor sharp like every other knife. Every other kershaw steel I have does fine. Have you tried sharpening any other knives?

 

[yepimonfire]

There are different edges. There are convex edges, hollow edges, flat ground edges. And varying angles of each. And yes a there is a difference between a working edge and a fine edge. At some point you polish an edge and remove the micro serrations that assist in certain types of cuts on certain materials. A working edge I have seen being refered to as a edge intentionally not taken to a polish as to keep the toothiness or an edge that has lost some of its keen sharpness relatively quickly compared to the less keen edge than can be maintained for longer periods of time without the need for resharpening.

My experience is the opposite. The finer I go stropping the longer the time between required sharpenings. Teeth break off easily. Finishing with fine India on my kitchen knives the edges dull in about 4 days. Finishing with 8000 grit diamond paste they stay razor sharp about two weeks. Both will cut paper, but only one can peel a ripe tomato or push cut soft bread without smashing it. I'll let you guess which one can't.