My NEW forge!!

J. Keeton

J. Keeton

Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,218
I started the day with lacing and truing a Harley wheel. I was so eager to start my forging that I did the wheel in record time.

I was planing to try and do some forge welding with my old new forge. I had the jets with 1/8 holes in them like on IG's site. For some reason it was sucking up gas sooo fast the hole propane tank froze, and stopped working :eek:. (I am not kidding). In under 15min I burned 7lbs of gas. To top it off my steel wasn't getting hot enough to weld. :mad: I then brought the orifice on my burners down to 1/16. This did tremendously help on the use of the gas, and stopped the tank from freezing up. However it just wasn't getting hot enough.

I then came to the conclusion that without extra money spent on more insulation this forge just wouldn't be able to do what I wanted it to do.

So I devised a plan to make a smaller more efficient forge. I had some left over inswool, Mortar, and some sheet steel. I robbed one of the burners off my old forge. This is what I came out with. I feel it is a lot cooler looking and a hellllllll of a lot more efficient. On top of all that is was easy to build, (if you have the materials), in only 3/4ths of a day.

Specs:

Is constructed of 4 pieces of sheet steel. THey are about 15 and 1/2 in. long and 10in high. (If I remember correctly.)

I have 1 burner made in the example of Indian George's burners. http://www.indiangeorgesknives.com/building_a_forge.html (Thanks a lot by the way your site is a huge!! help)

The blower is a 164CMF forge blower form Blacksmiths Depot http://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/Templates/.../164_CFM_Blower (Surprisingly powerful)

I purchased the inswool and refractory mortar from Darren at http://forgegallery.elliscustomknifeworks.com/ (Really nice people who know what they are talking about!!)

Here are some pics:


I welded this entire forge with that Mig.












I don't know if you can see it but that is only 1psi. I found that amazing.

Thanks for everyone who helped. You may not know you did, but you did. :)

I am thinking of building a door for it, but for now I am going to use fire brick. I am also going to line the bottom with 3 firebrick.
 
Good for you, Jimmy! You made a good decision. Have fun hitting the steel!
 
Peter_E_Ryt said:
Wow- great stuff! What are you gonna do with the old forge?
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I really don't know what I am going to do with the old forge. I think I am just going to sit on it for a while and ponder what to do. I may spend some money and put some more insulation in it to make it more efficient. I was thinking about selling it, but I don't think it is good enough to sell at this point. I'll probly just save it for when I try a sword or somthing.

It's funny the guy at the propane store was stumped when I asked him what cause my tank to freeze up so bad, and stop working. It almost felt like there was forzen material inside the tank when I shook it. I am not possitive though. 7lbs from a 17lbs tank in under 15min probly put it into shock.

fitzo said:
Good for you, Jimmy! You made a good decision. Have fun hitting the steel!
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The big day is tomarow. I can't wait.:D
 
Jimmy, a question and a comment:

Is that flame going to bear down right on the steel? That may cause hotspots. Something to watch for.

You may want to consider adding a needle valve to the propane line up close to where the line ends at the burner. I find it gives me another level of control. You can turn a forge down farther than you might think once you get up to temp. Takes some patience and practice to learn how to get the air and gas mixed optimally.

Something you really need to install is an emergency shutoff ball valve up by the tank. In case something goes flaky with the system you need to be able to shut it down PRONTO! Piece of slag burns a hole in the line and you've suddenly got flaming hose you don't want to be cranking on a gate valve. Be sure to get a gastight valve, not liquid tight.

Be sure and tell us of your first forging experience tomorrow! 'Luck
 
fitzo said:
Jimmy, a question and a comment:

Is that flame going to bear down right on the steel? That may cause hotspots. Something to watch for.

You may want to consider adding a needle valve to the propane line up close to where the line ends at the burner. I find it gives me another level of control. You can turn a forge down farther than you might think once you get up to temp. Takes some patience and practice to learn how to get the air and gas mixed optimally.

Something you really need to install is an emergency shutoff ball valve up by the tank. In case something goes flaky with the system you need to be able to shut it down PRONTO! Piece of slag burns a hole in the line and you've suddenly got flaming hose you don't want to be cranking on a gate valve. Be sure to get a gastight valve, not liquid tight.

Be sure and tell us of your first forging experience tomorrow! 'Luck
Click to expand...

About the flame hitting what I am working on. I haven't really had time to observe that, so I'll have to get back to you with that. If it does hit my work I bet I could reduce the flame. May just take some fine tuning

I think I am going to look in on that Needle valve. Sounds like a really good idea.

I am also thinking of a way to install one of the push button starters that are used on gas grills. :)

I am also thinking of trying to make a sliding firebrick door, sounded by a metal frame. I think I could use a half brick in the middle that can be used to adjust the size of my door.

A shutoff ball valve. What is that? Couldn't the same affect be achieved by just shutting off the regulator? Is it like a button? I have this thing running on so little it only takes a quarter turn to shut it off. Is it like a button?
 
A ball valve has a lever. You can basically reach over and "slap" it shut (hard slap!) Reaching in to turn that tank valve off with a forging glove on and a hose on fire may be a little hectic. It's nothing you HAVE to do, just an additional safety precaution. I have two on my forge: one at the tank and one right before the needle valve.

I tell you these things not to say you HAVE to do any of it. Just things you may not know. Awareness allows opportunity for making informed decisions.:)
 
fitzo said:
A ball valve has a lever. You can basically reach over and "slap" it shut (hard slap!) Reaching in to turn that tank valve off with a forging glove on and a hose on fire may be a little hectic. It's nothing you HAVE to do, just an additional safety precaution. I have two on my forge: one at the tank and one right before the needle valve.

I tell you these things not to say you HAVE to do any of it. Just things you may not know. Awareness allows opportunity for making informed decisions.:)
Click to expand...

I appreciate it. I'll see if I can get one from the propane shop. One can never be too safe.
 
Fitzo is giving good advise on the valves.As far as the tank freezing up-with the large orifice you were using the liquid propane was boiling off so fast the it lowered the temperature of the tank until it was a frozen ball of frost.This causes freez-up.Many makers use a larger tank and change the burner orifice.If the guy at the supplier didn't understand a propane tank freezing up - well, I wouldn't get any important advice from him.
 
I have been using it for about an hour now, and wanted to give yall an update.

It gets metal very very hot... which is good. However it is geting so hot in there that the sides of the forge itself are supper hot, and are starting to warp a little. Some of the paint has been cooked away also. I was thinking I could order some ITC - 100. Would that solve that problem? Should I get another layer of inswool also?

MY tank is geting a little bit of frost on it. I am still amazingly runing at .5 - 1 psi. I am going to try and make a trip to the propane shop and get a needle valve so I can have better controle in there.

Thanks,
 
I really like your setup Jimmy. I always listen to Fitzo when he makes a comment (I may not always follow his lead, but I listen, and 99% of the time I do what he suggests). It does look like your flame would be constantly heating the middle of you blade or whatever. If there way a way to put a circular baffle plate in the, that would help deflect the heat to the sides, front and back, instead of the object. I really like the cart. I built one for my forge also, and put it on wheels. Smartest thing I've ever done! Be sure to take a photo for us when you're finished.
 
rhrocker said:
I really like your setup Jimmy. I always listen to Fitzo when he makes a comment (I may not always follow his lead, but I listen, and 99% of the time I do what he suggests). It does look like your flame would be constantly heating the middle of you blade or whatever. If there way a way to put a circular baffle plate in the, that would help deflect the heat to the sides, front and back, instead of the object. I really like the cart. I built one for my forge also, and put it on wheels. Smartest thing I've ever done! Be sure to take a photo for us when you're finished.
Click to expand...

Ya, everything Fitzo said, sais I am plaining to do. :)

I am wondering if I should order both another layer of inswool, and ITC - 100 or just the ITC - 100. I am thinking both...

What is a circular baffle plate? Where could I aquire one?

Thanks,
 
I'm firing my forge up in about 30 minutes- I'll tell you how well it stays insultated with 1" Kaowool and ITC-100.
 
Peter_E_Ryt said:
I'm firing my forge up in about 30 minutes- I'll tell you how well it stays insultated with 1" Kaowool and ITC-100.
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Awsome! Good Luck! I hope that works out well for you. Don't forget to report in.

____________________________________________

If anyone has ideas for a door I am Very very oppen to suggestion. Tonight when I get home I'll show what I modified today. My door is only hard firebrick right now, and I don't care for it. I was thinking some type of board or somthing. Any Ideas?:confused:
 
J. Keeton said:
Ya, everything Fitzo said, sais I am plaining to do. :)
Click to expand...

Jimmy, while I appreciate the confidence, I am surely NOT an authority on forge construction. I'm trying to help where I can, but more than anything I'm interested that you don't burn yourself up.

In all honesty, it may be best if you use this current forge for a bit to heat up some steel and pound on it. After awhile you may want to consider making a cylindrical-interior forge based on a freon or propane tank. My first gas forge was painted with 1000 degree bbq black, and burnt off within the first week, even with 2" of kaowool and satanite coat. The current one is done in lovely shades of rust. :D ITC100 is much more reflective, and when I reline my forge next spring it will get a coat of that on top of fresh satanite. ITC100 carries some health risks. If you get involved with it, wear a dust mask and DON'T get it on you. Here's an MSDS:
http://budgetcastingsupply.com/MSDS/ITC-100_MSDS.pdf

You need to get the burner inlet placed correctly, also, to give the swirling, tornado-like flame vortex to give an evenly heated chamber.

These things are going to be hard to do with this forge design. Thus, my recommendation is to have some fun pounding steel, and think on it awhile before building a final design. You were doing better with the round design first in some respects, except for the fact you built a turkey-sized roaster when we're cooking pigeons!

Have you read the web page on a forge called a "freon tank forge"? If not, it is a "must read". I think it's a great design.
http://fredlyfx.com/freon.htm
http://www.frontiernet.net/~gnreil/minifor1.shtml
Keep your eye open for an old, used, funky looking propane tank, very empty. Leave it opened up out in the back lot for awhile to empty completely.

Don't get me wrong, here; I am not getting down on you! Your enthusiasm is marvelous, and inspiring. We want to help you get it set up right! Have fun!
 
fitzo said:
Jimmy, while I appreciate the confidence, I am surely NOT an authority on forge construction. I'm trying to help where I can, but more than anything I'm interested that you don't burn yourself up.

In all honesty, it may be best if you use this current forge for a bit to heat up some steel and pound on it. After awhile you may want to consider making a cylindrical-interior forge based on a freon or propane tank. My first gas forge was painted with 1000 degree bbq black, and burnt off within the first week, even with 2" of kaowool and satanite coat. The current one is done in lovely shades of rust. :D ITC100 is much more reflective, and when I reline my forge next spring it will get a coat of that on top of fresh satanite. ITC100 carries some health risks. If you get involved with it, wear a dust mask and DON'T get it on you. Here's an MSDS:
http://budgetcastingsupply.com/MSDS/ITC-100_MSDS.pdf

You need to get the burner inlet placed correctly, also, to give the swirling, tornado-like flame vortex to give an evenly heated chamber.

These things are going to be hard to do with this forge design. Thus, my recommendation is to have some fun pounding steel, and think on it awhile before building a final design. You were doing better with the round design first in some respects, except for the fact you built a turkey-sized roaster when we're cooking pigeons!

Have you read the web page on a forge called a "freon tank forge"? If not, it is a "must read". I think it's a great design.
http://fredlyfx.com/freon.htm
http://www.frontiernet.net/~gnreil/minifor1.shtml
Keep your eye open for an old, used, funky looking propane tank, very empty. Leave it opened up out in the back lot for awhile to empty completely.

Don't get me wrong, here; I am not getting down on you! Your enthusiasm is marvelous, and inspiring. We want to help you get it set up right! Have fun!
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the squareness of the forge not evenly puting out heat, but I had to try it. I am going to try to get up on funds before I build another one.

I was wondering what your imput would be on making a door. I am starting to think that this may work out though with the bricks.

I am also going to order another layer of inswool and some ITC - 100 for this thing. Ill post some pictures latter of the top warping down.

For the ITC - 100 do I Need a layer of satanite put down first befor I apply it?
 
J. Keeton said:
I was thinking about the squareness of the forge not evenly puting out heat, but I had to try it. I am going to try to get up on funds before I build another one.

I was wondering what your imput would be on making a door. I am starting to think that this may work out though with the bricks.

I am also going to order another layer of inswool and some ITC - 100 for this thing. Ill post some pictures latter of the top warping down.

For the ITC - 100 do I Need a layer of satanite put down first befor I apply it?
Click to expand...

Sliding firebrick doors are very common..you're on the right track. It's sort of what I was suggesting in PM about a back door for the "giant" with a single piece of angle iron as a "slide" for the brick (or two). If you have too much gas/air flow, though, a door will never stop the flame, just narrow it. My vertical forge throws out a foot of flame no matter what I do. Right arm/no hair during forging season!!!

ITC100 is a lot more expensive than Satanite. Thus, a lot of people will first coat with Satanite to "fill" the wool. After that dries, put a coat of ITC100 on top. It's not mandatory.

Edited to add: if you're going to put more wool in, try to add an extra strip along the corners first, then put the whole new layer in. This will have the effect of rounding the corners some. That make sense?
 
I think I know someone who could get me a pipe around 12in wide and 15-18in long. If I get that I'll order some extra inswool and ITC -100 for it also, when I order the extra layer for my "box forge". I could probly jack the other burner off my hog/turkey forge, and alternate the blower. Better yet I could "T" the blower between the 2 forges, and just close one valve while using onr or the other.

Even if the box isn't good for evenly heating a knife blade, would it work well for making damascus?

Don't they make something called duriboard, or somthing like that. Wouldn't that make a good door.

I also seem to have problems with my satanite. It becomes really flaky and flakes off and shows the inswool. I guess I need thicker layers of it, but I am not sure.
 
Ok, I have some pictures of my days doings..

This is my set up:


This is my insulation problem:


This is my Droooping Problem:


My atemped fix of Drooping: (Self tapping screws)

After I finished I grinded off the screw heads.

After I did my "repairs" I waited a while and then started it up again. It then ran on .5psi for 2hrs untill the shop closed! I didn't even start with a full tank. One of the main reasons it was able to do this I think was because I reduced the jet size to 1/16. It still worked fine and used less gas.\

Tranny shaft geting Hot:


Me Hammering:


Harley Tranny Shaft:


Harley Tranny Gear:


Tomarow I am going to try and make some damascus out of the tranny shaft and tranny gear. I may put in some mild steel.:) (Is putting in the mild stell on the sides a good idea?)


Another question. This is starting to happen on the top of my forge: Is it a huge problem?



How do people get their satanite to look so good? I cann't seem to get mine to stay on...

Thanks everyone,
 
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