My Reasoning for Not Taking Orders

Great call...it's your business.

The one point I would make is a portion of the marketplace, primarily the Flea Market (almost 1 million views and 10K responses in 2 years) is adjusting the back end of your business model to the benefit of your current and future customers. What I mean is in the flea market, knives are being moved from people who don't want the model and/or configuration to customers who want said model and/or configuration. This goes on daily between and during Fiddleback Friday and it seems pretty darn efficient. This product movement only happens when the product is valued above all else (price, availability, breadth of selection), a testament to the knives you and your team produce.

My flea market experience was I wanted a Nessmuk, a specific Nessmuk, 1/8" O1 TT, but also a user, so I didn't have to "break the seal" so to speak. I found one on the Flea Market after just a few weeks of looking. In an order taking model, you would have never offered this configuration (used knife), but I found it pretty easily and continue to be a satisfied customer. I have also caught and released a few that just didn't do it for me and their new owners are either satisfied with their new one or have released to another new owner that will be.

It's not a order taking business, but Fiddleback Friday, your dealer network, and the Flea Market seem to be satisfying a bunch of happy loyal customers.

Thanks again.
 
I'm going to be the one to say it. It is your business run it how you like. However it would be nice to be able to order a collection configured the way you would like and be done with it. I'm not saying full on customs that are not normal profiles for fiddleback, but steel type and scales to the customer preferences. I have some ideas of my grail knives and I'm never going to live long enough to ever shark them if they are ever made.

Just my .002
 
Talking is good. By that I mean talking to you customers and challenging your suppliers is a healthy and productive part of running a business. Really, I mean that, but pictures are good too.

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I actually like the business model. It's exciting, and keeps me interested. I never know whats coming, and even though I've yet to find my grail, I love the anticipation of knowing that if I stick with it my dedication will pay off. And I like the sense that I'm joining in with, participating in, and supporting a community of passionate and committed people who have a genuine love of these tools for more than the aspect of them being just tools.

And really, you can't be all things to all people. Having been intimately involved in a family business, and having created my own for a short period, why do it if we can't create something that is our own vision? And why work so hard at it if it isn't something we are passionate about and deeply love? After reading your reasons Andy, it's clear to me that doing it any other way would turn your passion into drudgery.

Might you lose a few customers? Sure. But in my humble opinion you lose customers no matter what you do. You clearly have an intensely loyal following, and your product sells - often within seconds of the 3pm unlock. You must be doing something right!

You need not make any apologies or explanations for what you do. You have a great crew, a loyal following of passionate collectors, a beautiful product, and every Friday is a creative, dynamic surprise. I can't wait.

Tony
 
Kirkwood said:
Andy, it frankly pisses me off that you have received so much feedback that you felt compelled to post your reasons for a business decision you made over 5 years ago.

Your business, your policies. No need to debate it.

If people want a custom knife, there are plenty of custom makers out there who would love their business.
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Let not your heart be troubled K. I wasn't mad about the requests, and this isn't really a debate but more of a justification of a previous decision. When I wrote the original thread I had stopped taking orders already, and the first reason was the real reason. The other four points are logical, and provide backup, but the irritated customers were really the only reason I could make myself risk it. It felt like a risk. I had to say no to customers for the first time. I also think of it as a turning point in my development. I saved half my time, and re-dedicated that time to the grinder. The skills sharpened and the designs got better IMO.

AusLoX said:
I think it's awesome to take a different approach. Maybe a poll would help to find out what the top sellers will be. Either way, I love the knives and that's what it's all about.
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We follow here, follow the wish list threads and model threads. Then we track which models are selling and try to ajust to suit as we go. Its actually not very hard to guage model demand.

TripleT said:
As an aside, it would be cool to see one or two customs offered up annually in an auction or lottery format. $800 minimum bid. Half to Super Ben. Maker pre-selects options. This is just a fun fantasy idea, not in argument in any way :pirate:

Also, Swonut, back off that chopper :D
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We have had an order here from a very special customer. Ken took the order. We still have never gotten the blade through glueup with the right handle config on it with correct liners, correct pinout, and correct thicknesses. I have notes posted everywhere. We tag the parts. Its been at least 6 months. That my friend is embarassing.

NoFair said:
I fully understand your decision, but at the same time I'm very happy to have managed to get some orders in before you stopped taking them ;)

Happy belated birthday btw :D
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Nicely said. Woot!

mrwindow said:
I'm going to be the one to say it. It is your business run it how you like. However it would be nice to be able to order a collection configured the way you would like and be done with it. I'm not saying full on customs that are not normal profiles for fiddleback, but steel type and scales to the customer preferences. I have some ideas of my grail knives and I'm never going to live long enough to ever shark them if they are ever made.

Just my .002
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We have taken an order for groomsmens knives and a 10 knife order for a company president before and it worked out. BUT! The order each time was for a model. Neither time did the person even discuss handle material, grind, thickness, liners, or pinout. The company president wanted ten Woodsmen. The groomsmen knives were Bushfingers.

The more details we get, we have found, the less likely we are to succeed. I tried to limit the options once. I offered a ten 'semi custom' knives. The knives were to have bolstered Cocobolo scales. To get on the list you had to
 
Fiddleback said:
The more details we get, we have found, the less likely we are to succeed. I tried to limit the options once. I offered a ten 'semi custom' knives. The knives were to have bolstered Cocobolo scales. To get on the list you had to
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had tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..............waiting...waiting....waiting........i give up
 
VANCE said:
had tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..............waiting...waiting....waiting........i give up
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Easy way to keep from getting orders. Leave the "had to" requirements as totally undefined. "Sorry, you don't qualify."
 
I'm new to this fiddleback experience and have been bit by the addiction bug. I however agree with with your business practice. No way someone wants to wait 10 months to over a year for an order and that can happen. Part of the addiction to me is the excitement of not knowing what is going to be available and the waiting. Might be nice to occasionally have a post where people can request certain models etc with no guarantees, but carry on!!
 
It makes sense to me my friend! If you're not good at and it ends up being an anchor emotionally and financially, don't do it! You're doing just fine!
 
Bobbyharr883 said:
I'm new to this fiddleback experience and have been bit by the addiction bug. I however agree with with your business practice. No way someone wants to wait 10 months to over a year for an order and that can happen. Part of the addiction to me is the excitement of not knowing what is going to be available and the waiting. Might be nice to occasionally have a post where people can request certain models etc with no guarantees, but carry on!!
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1362422-What-Fiddlebacks-are-you-looking-for
 
Bobbyharr883 said:
I'm new to this fiddleback experience and have been bit by the addiction bug. I however agree with with your business practice. No way someone wants to wait 10 months to over a year for an order and that can happen. Part of the addiction to me is the excitement of not knowing what is going to be available and the waiting. Might be nice to occasionally have a post where people can request certain models etc with no guarantees, but carry on!!
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Can you imagine a 4 or 5 year wait. Hell, that much of a wait and I'm not even interested anymore. I know makers with this kind of list. When I quit taking orders I was a year out. I felt like that list owned me. Horrible idea.
 
Fiddleback said:
Can you imagine a 4 or 5 year wait. Hell, that much of a wait and I'm not even interested anymore. I know makers with this kind of list. When I quit taking orders I was a year out. I felt like that list owned me. Horrible idea.
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A trend I've noticed with folks that used to take orders and have a long list is that they're moving towards what you did all those years ago. Close the list, finish it off, and then building knives to sell. Being a "slave to the list" is another term I've heard.

Really makes it hard to be creative. You're working to satisfy the list and what people wanted years ago. If you go off list to design something new, people won't be able to order it for years and complain that you're slowing down the list in the meantime.

I think taking orders might be necessary to get started and get your name and reputation out there, but there's a tipping point where it becomes a hinderance instead.
 
thurin said:
...Really makes it hard to be creative.
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This is a big point folks forget about when they advocate for customer orders. I would never have thought of a few of the configurations that I now own a cherish. I want Andy and crew designing knives, not just assembling orders.
 
ncrockclimb said:
... I want Andy and crew designing knives, not just assembling orders.
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As my 11 year old son would say: "Booyah - Nailed it!"

Not only would I not have some of the cool configurations I have, but who knows what models would be made even? Andy admittedly hit one out of the park with the Bushfinger. A few years back, if he had still been taking orders, I'm guessing he'd have 75% + of the orders being for the Bushfinger. He would have been freaking tired of making Bushfingers. And he might not have been able to design the who knows how many models that we've come to love since then.

I've waited a long time to find some of the Fiddleback combos that are on my "List". There are some I'll probably never see. But the idea that I have to have some exact configuration in order to buy a knife seems really foreign to me.
 
thurin said:
....I've waited a long time to find some of the Fiddleback combos that are on my "List". There are some I'll probably never see. But the idea that I have to have some exact configuration in order to buy a knife seems really foreign to me.
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My thoughts as well! I have my preferences and if the knife fits within those and I like it, I'll be inclined to buy it, assuming I have the money. Plus there are a lot of knives that I would have never thought I would like until I see a specific combo of handles on that pattern. For instance I've never been a big fan of Nessmuck style knives, but that Lemon Drop one last week had my mind changed.
 
Andy - makes perfect sense, a lot of the smaller custom fixed blade makers don't even take orders....then, some guys actually prefer to.

I'm sure this has been mentioned/asked a thousand times, so forgive me - do you ever see FF offering...not custom orders, but variations on some typical models? I'm specifically referring to blade finish. I think the typical FF treatment of the flats is cool, no doubt, but I would vastly prefer a complete hand-rubbed/sanded finish. Would love to hear your current thoughts/philosophy on this - thanks brother!
 
The issue of returning to a custom order based business is moot. That issue, was put to bed by Andy at the very beginning. Aren't we beating a very dead horse? It seems clear, as this dialogue has evolved, most who participate here, are happy with the status quo. We are the choir. But, are we the whole of Fiddleback Forge's customer base? Do we represent the points of view of everyone who buys or would buy a Forge knife? What about those folks who are just discovering these very cool knives? Not everybody who buys, participates in a forum or even know one exists.

Yes we want Andy designing knives. Should the (whole) crew be doing so - all the time? Who's gonna make Andy's designs? If everybody's a captain, who raises the sails, maintains the gear, steers the boat? Designing is but one step in running a business. Somebody's got to execute. Somebody has to answer the phone/email, sell, bill, keep the books, ship, buy material. Folks gotta get paid. And somebody has to manage all that. I bet that's Andy, to.

In that very cool interview with Derrick Bohn, (Knives Ship Free), last spring, Andy declares his proudest accomplishment was building a business with 10 full time employees. I get that. I bet he wants that to keep going and growing. Custom ordering is in the past. It's gone. Limitation's proven. Done. Selling to we the choir, via Fiddleback Friday, the dealer network, the Flea Market and private messaging is working. But how to keep things going and growing?

If Andy wanted to make a declaration about custom ordering he could've posted and closed the thread as Phillip does with Fiddleback Friday morning's previews. But it was left open. Was the intent to gather moral support for the stated policy? Or, was the intent to stimulate a dialogue?
 
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