My second knife project

tryppyr

tryppyr

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
3,911
I was advised to move this conversation from the Around The Grinder forum to this forum, so please pardon the repetition.

What you see below are the progress pictures on my second knife project. This is, in fact, the first project I have tackled that began with just a bar of damascus that I shaped into a blade. I don't have an actual shop. I have a desk in the garage with a 6" bench grinder and a 1" band sander and a Dremel with lots of attachments.

This first shot shows the blade after preliminary grinding, and very coarse grinding of the handle section.

Knife2-1.jpg


The following images show the blade after the final etching (using Ferric Chloride).

Dagger2.jpg


Dagger3.JPG


Over the weekend I shaped the handle sections and now have them taped into place as I pond which method I want to use to permanently attach them. Ideally the method would be invisible and permanent and would not involve adhesives of any sort.

The handle is made from stabilized Buckeye Burl. I will take pictures of the completed knife once the handle is attached, but for now I'm working on another project while I consider the handle attachment options.

- Greg
 
I bought the bar of damascus from a shop that had several by Matt Whitmus. I happened to notice a dagger pattern on the back cover of the book on fixed blades, so I adapted that design to my taste and skill level.

I used the bench grinder to do most of the shaping for the blade. It has the usual two wheels... one coarse (60 grit), one fine (100 grit). The coarse wheel did most of the material removal. I then switched to the Dremel to even out the edges and to do what I could to put the center line on the blade.

The belt sander was used to remove most of the coarse grind lines and pits from the blade... not much more, actually.

I then shifted to hand sanding using a progression of papers, starting at 150, then 320, 400, then 600, and finally 1000.

After the final sanding, I started the etching. I followed the advice I found in this forum, and cleaned the blade before etching using acetone, Windex, and distilled water. I used a 14:1 mix of FC and distilled water.

The first dip was disastrous because I kept touching the blade between dips. So when it was done I resanded the blade and started again.

From that point forward I did progressive dips. The first session I went for six ten-second dips, rinsing and drying the blade between dips. After that I gently sanded with the 600 grit paper to even out the color. The second session I did six 30-second dips, again rinsing and drying between dips, again following with a gentle sanding. The third session I went for six more 30-second dips. The last session I did a solid 3-minute dip.

When the final dip was done I used the 1000 grit paper VERY lightly to touch up some spots and even out the tone. I think that final touch up brings out the contrast a bit better. I then wiped it down with a microfiber cloth to "polish" it a bit.

After that I gently and carefully used a 600 grit stone to put the edge back on the blade.

Once I was satisfied with the blade I began working on the handle. I received a 5" block of the stabilized wood and used my cheap and pathetic band saw to split it lengthwise. The belt sander was used to cut away the unwanted material and the rough edges left by the pathetic saw. The Dremel was used to finish the general shaping.

I then taped the halves to their respective side of the knife and used the band sander to bring the edges of the wood down to the level of the blade handle. After removing the pieces I used the Dremel to dress up the shape of the handle, then went through the same sanding process on the handle (60 grit, 150, 320, 600 and 1000), then used the buffer attachment on the Dremel with some white rouge to polish the handle.

I put the handle pieces back onto the knife using double sided tape for the final fitting and drilling, but as noted before I haven't committed to the method of attachment yet, so here I sit.

- Greg
 
Well...

Call me an a..hole if you want, but.

I can't see any grind bevel line on your blade.
..and it seems that the edges are very thick


I think that I would tend to save the nice Damascus you are using and practice on some good mono steel and good basic wood, or micarta until your grinding and finishing skills catchup to the quality of materials you are using now.
 
Last edited:
I'd never call you names for expressing an opinion, even if I disagree, ;)

As for saving expensive materials, don't worry... I'm not poor.

- Greg
 
Well, this thread has had 64 views, and no one else has said anything yet...

Many will say great, looks good and many more will just pass by, which doesn't really help you does it? Unless you just want the empty..looks good comments...

I love damascus daggers, but I can't do one yet and I think many will agree that they are the hardest project there is; hence their inclusion in a master smith test set.

there are some nice Damascus knives, but not all knives are nice because they are made of damascus...

Especially in a dagger, fit finish and symmetry should be PERFECT.
big $ materials don't compensate for fir and finish

So far, I don't see a centre line and as far as I can see, I'm willing to bet that the blade edges are very thick ----and thinner cuts better.

Will it cut paper now? if not I would go back to grinding before the handles are on.

As for you having money to spend on damascus, that cash could be better spent on upgrading your tools, that you are complaining about..
my cheap and pathetic band saw

when you are paying for that pretty steel 10 to 15 $ per inch? hundreds per bar?
, It wouldn't take long to upgrade the grinder, or make one of those greenpete type hand filing jigs to keep things consistent, or buy a few hundred feet of steel and practice a bit more...

trying to be helpful...
 
I appreciate the comments, but there are other matters to consider. Upgrading the bandsaw suggests I have someplace to put a better one. I don't. A Steelcase desk is my workstop. Everything has to fit there. It's crowded as it is today.

To put things into perspective I should probably state that it is not my intention to pass myself off as a real knifemaker. This is just a new hobby for me, and I'm not really expecting to rise to the level of a real knifemaker. I just want to work on some projects and see some ideas I have become come to fruition. The job I have doesn't offer much closure, so I get that through my hobbies.

When I started this I had no idea how easy or difficult it would be... I just knew what I wanted to see at the end, and that's what I'm seeing now. It pleases me. It feels good in my hand. And I learned some things along the way, like how to etch damascus. Was it worth it? To me it was.

And to answer your statement, you are correct, the blade is thick and will not cut paper. Is that important? Do people use daggers to cut paper? It was never a goal of the project for me.

- Greg
 
tryppyr said:
And to answer your statement, you are correct, the blade is thick and will not cut paper. Is that important? Do people use daggers to cut paper? It was never a goal of the project for me.

- Greg
Click to expand...

I like pretty, but I still believe in function over form.

If it won't cut, is it a knife?

I find a clean cut on paper a good test of sharpness.

I like the grind you did on #1. I can't fault that.
(except for the backwards guard, but that's your prerogative)
Knife1-1.jpg




The dagger is missing a centre line...
If you could do a double hollow grind on this dagger like you did on knife #1,
-It would stand out more,
-show a centre line,
-thin out the edges
and the deeper you grind into the steel, the more the pattern will show.
 
Last edited:
The first knife was made from a blade I bought, not one I ground. Michael (Micke) Andersson was the knifemaker that ground it. I like his work. I recently bought a blade from his son (Andre), and will be mounting that one soon.

The dagger (or letter opener, if calling it a dagger is presumptuous) was my first attempt at grinding.

Still, it's nice to know what is considered important. I'll see if my next grinding project can rise to that level. The next grinding project is on another exotic metal (a very thick chunk of titanium alloy I was given). I've already roughed out the shape, but haven't started grinding the blade yet.

- Greg
 
12345678910 said:
I like pretty, but I still believe in function over form.

If it won't cut, is it a knife?

I find a clean cut on paper a good test of sharpness.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, you've never seen an actual medieval dagger (and I mean one that actually dates to the 16th-17th century, not a copy) in person have you? They are a piercing and parrying weapon.

The dagger is missing a centre line...
If you could do a double hollow grind on this dagger like you did on knife #1,
-It would stand out more,
-show a centre line,
-thin out the edges
and the deeper you grind into the steel, the more the pattern will show.
Click to expand...

Ease up, it's the guy's second knife. Just because he felt like spending some coin on his second project don't piss in his Wheaties. He's happy doing it and if he's happy with the output of his effort, that's all that counts at this point. Not to mention, from were I sit it's a heck of a job done with a very limited set of tools.

Now, the one thing that does indeed concern me is that in your progress notes tryppyr, I see no mention of heat treatment. Heat treating the steel is what makes a knife a knife. It will never be more than a letter opener unless you properly harden and temper that blade. It will not hold an edge at all until heat treatment has been done. I would highly recommend you peruse some of the heat treatment discussions linked in the newbie sticky up top.

While I'm at it let me save you a load of time on your next project as well. Titanium does not and will never make a good knife blade. It is very tough, but cannot take or hold an edge. It will also be a royal pain to work with the tools you have described in your shop. I'd recommend getting some simple carbon steel and setting to work on a blade that you can carry and use. It will really give you an appreciation for your hard work if you get to use a tool you've made on a daily basis. It's also a great learning tool to use what you've made. You'll get a whole new perspective on what makes a comfortable, usable knife. I'll even offer up some material to you to get started. Drop me an email or a PM with your address and I'll send you out some materials to work with and will happily answer what questions you have as you work on it.

Keep up the good work, but do look into the heat treating ;)

-d
 
My $.02 is that it looks alot better than my 2nd knife, and I believe it would serve nicely to end the life of one expecting to attack you. I would also concur with deker that daggers are historically a stabbing weapon. Not that you can't cut with one(just ask Rex Applegate). One last piece of advice (friendly advice) is to pursue even your hobbies with the attitude that you WILL be the greatest. That is what helps you to continuously improve. If you start off thinking you will fall short, you likely will. Keep up the good work and just try to make each one better than the last.

-Steve
 
Deker,

Regarding the heat treatment, I will look into it. The bar was annealed before I bought it, so I (obviously mistakenly) assumed it didn't need any further heat treatment.

Heat, by the way, is one thing I can't currently do. I don't have a torch, let along a forge or a kiln. But I could obtain a torch... I'll just have to use it when my wife isn't looking. She's already nagging me about not "burning down the house" (a fear kindled by the sparks flying off the grinding wheel).

- Greg
 
For heat treating, it is common to send blades to Paul Bos or Texas knifemakers supply for heat treat. I believe most makers will agree that heat treat is the most important aspect of a good knife. Typically the cost is $5-15 per blade. Below is some contact info...

http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Paul Bos
660 S. Lochsa Street
Post Falls, ID 83854
USA
(208) 262-0500, Ext. 211
(208) 262-0559
paulbos@buckknives.com
Associate Member
Heat Treating


Peters Heat Treating, Inc
Post Office Box 646
Meadville, PA 16335
USA
(814) 333-1782
(814) 333-2533
lstall@petersheattreat.com
http://petersheattreat.com
Associate Member
Heat Treating
 
Excellent! Thanks for the pointers. My wife will be pleased that I don't have to jeopardize the house any more than I already do.

- Greg
 
Paul Bos no longer does oil hardening methods. He recommended Jerry Rados instead.

I think the same applies to Texasknife.com.... only air hardening.

- Greg
 
tryppyr said:
Paul Bos no longer does oil hardening methods. He recommended Jerry Rados instead.

I think the same applies to Texasknife.com.... only air hardening.

- Greg
Click to expand...

Peters does oil quenching steels.

Also, just to help clear up one thing for you. Annealing is a process of softening steel so that it can be easily machined. You don't want it soft if you expect it to cut. It must be hardened and then tempered so as not to be too brittle.

Read some of the stuff in the newbie sticky. It really is a great pile of information.

-d
 
tryppyr said:
Paul Bos no longer does oil hardening methods. He recommended Jerry Rados instead.

I think the same applies to Texasknife.com.... only air hardening.

- Greg
Click to expand...

Yeah I just called Texas knife makers, they don't anything that requires an oil quench.
 
Well, I'd like to chime in on the titanium. Having nearly completed mine, I'd like to say that a normal 60 grit belt will cut through it almost as quickly as steel. However, roughing out the shape is the hard part and he stated he already has that done. I know the picture is bad, but there is actually a point on it. This is a mushroom knife used to dig up morels in the spring. It's very light, only 202 grams, which is pretty light for a 7 1/2" blade. Don't expect it to hold an edge though, but you can do some neat heat coloring on it.


knife 4a.jpg
 
I've just exchanged a couple of e-mails with Brad at Peter's Heat Treatment. He didn't balk about treating the damascus, so I'll move forward with that. Seems like I need to sand the blade before sending it for HT. He said he'd never treated an etched blade before... might be an interesting experiment... but I think I'll do it the proper way first time through. We'll try unconventional treatments on future blades, perhaps.

- Greg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top