My second sheath (it's for a wharncliffe)

[Omega Leather Works]

Hey guys. Knocked out my second sheath last night.

It's made to fit my first knife. The knife is (obviously) a wharncliffe. Made from 1084, heat treated by me in my little forge. The handle material and pins were also made by me. I like the knife, but it's kinda hard to carry around without the sheath so I'm happy to be done with it. I've worn it once. I'm happy to report that I can wear it sitting in the truck. I was really worried that it would poke me, or the suede seats, but it rides great, even a little better than my first sheath with a dangler.

The stitching holes got screwy, probably because I was drilling the holes under very dark conditions. Doesn't matter, I've still got a ton to learn.

The tooling looked better before wet forming so I've gotta figure that out.

Aside from the crappy stitch line I'm happy enough with it. Need some gum tragacanth pretty badly too.

One more knife sheath, a fancy sheath for my multi tool then I'll need to make or buy more knives.

 

[Horsewright]

Looking good. General rule of thumb your knife cuts should be about half the thickness of the leather. Bevel those lines and then do your basket stamping a little deeper and it will survive the wet molding better. Until you can get some gum, try paraffin on a piece of denim to rub your edges. They'll burnish up pretty well. Black on black masked the stitching really well. Had to look close to find what you were talking about. Nice work. Whats up next?

 

[Zaper]

Very nice craftsmanship!

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Looking good. General rule of thumb your knife cuts should be about half the thickness of the leather. Bevel those lines and then do your basket stamping a little deeper and it will survive the wet molding better. Until you can get some gum, try paraffin on a piece of denim to rub your edges. They'll burnish up pretty well. Black on black masked the stitching really well. Had to look close to find what you were talking about. Nice work. Whats up next?

Dave, what are you referring to when you say knife cuts? If you mean swivel knife, I didn't use one on this sheath. The stamping was done with a standard quality Tandy stamp, all the lines were done with a groove stitcher. I am happy that the green dye mostly covered any black dye that ran outside the grooves. I saw a walk through where the maker used a sharpie to color the groove lines, but mine are too fat tipped to do that.

About the paraffin... Does beeswax work the same in that role? I can pick up a block of paraffin at walmart the next time I'm there, they cost peanuts. I saw a video yesterday where a guy was power burnishing using a 50/50 blend of paraffin and beeswax. I'm not sure which qualities are offered by one over the other?

One other thing about the stitching. There was some talk recently about whether or not a stitch groove was needed on the back side. On my first sheath I grooved it, on this one I decided to see what it would look and feel like without the groove. I gotta say, I'll be grooving the back from here on out. Maybe it's my technique, or maybe something else, but I figured that if I pulled hard enough, the stitching wouldn't be much different. Doing it the way I do, the grooved side looks way better, and the non-grooved stitches feel terrible in comparison. I ran the overstitcher over both, as well as tapping them down with the mallet.

On the stamping... I don't think I cased thoroughly enough. I thought the stampings were deep enough but obviously not. I'm also using a cheesy small yellow Tandy poly mallet. I don't think it has enough punch to do this job. Maybe something that will remain flat, but I think I'd like a 2 or 3lb maul better. If nothing else, at least a large mallet.

Thanks Zap!

 

[harronek]

Gum isn't absolutely essential , this edge was achieved with nothing but sandpaper , spit and elbow grease .

This edge below is not mine , it is a guy called Mike Tea . I use his technique ( found it by searching every forum i could find ) to produce my edges .

Ken

 

[leatherman]

On the stitching groove, I tole ya so! Kidding of course, but after trying it myself I hated the look and feel of the thread sitting on the top of the leather, I dont even like it from a machine but it does sit flatter. Something about the stitch having a space to settle into makes it look both more professional and saves it from some abrasion. If you do nothing but machine stitching, its a moot point.

The poly mallet served me well for many years till I got my hands on the 1 pound Stohlman mallet. Its basically a maul turned on end, the shorter barrel and more weight are so nice. The flat face has its advantages, I've found it easier to use for light work. But I will have a 1 pound maul eventually. The two 2 pounders I have are relegated to heavy use like my makers mark and strap end punches. 2 pounds, to me is too heavy for pattern stamping, I dont feel confident making a consistent strike. But thats just me, others love em. If you have the opportunity try out both weights and that mallet. YOu might be surprised how different they feel.

I have one of the old school rawhide mallets, but after using the Stohlman version it feels so strange with the (now) elongated feel of the head.

Oh, if you can try both the rawhide and poly mauls, the difference is dramatic. I dont have a preference, but I do have separate uses for mine, the feel is so different.

 

[Horsewright]

My mistake buddy. I thought those border grooves were swivel knife cuts. Beeswax works about the same as paraffin. Paraffin is usually easier to find, every grocery store has it in the canning section. Cheaper too. Saliva has been used for edge burnishing for ages. It works very well as those pics shows.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Thanks Dwayne, I'm sure you're right. It probably would be best to run over to Tandy to try the mallets/mauls in person. Thinking about it, 3lb sounds pretty darn heavy. Even 1lb would be quite different from the littlest poly mallet.

Ken, holy crap those are nice! That's exactly what I'm aspiring to. Not much success yet, but I'll get there. It would probably help a lot to just stitch 3 pieces of leather together and try some different things. It's hard to see in this pic (which is why I didn't post it before), but your edging is far superior to my current efforts. I have used spit, but I'll give it another shot after a really good progression of grits. I'm mainly evening the edges with a 120 grit belt, then following up with 180 and 320 (I think), then saddle soap +burnishing, either with the bass wood burnisher that I made, and/or with the bone folder that I made out of the same green burlap stuff that I used to make the knife scales on the knife above. I follow that with dye, then beeswax and more burnishing.

I think it would pass on a factory sheath, but my game must be raised in order to show off.

Thanks for the info Dave. I have a big block of beeswax that will probably last forever. I'll still grab some paraffin to see how it reacts. I didn't see it until it was too late (I had already stitched up the loop) but I saw one of the guys over at SL use a piece of glass as a slicker (edges rounded like a car window) with some gum tragacanth on the flesh side of a piece of veg tanned. Looked pretty nice. I'll have to try something like that too.

 

[leatherman]

Looks like your heading in the right direction there, just needs a little more work to get those little areas smoothed out.

For edge wetting, I use a sponge. After that I use some 320 grit paper till the edge feels smooth to my hand and looks even to the eye. No burnishing required. Dye, gum trag, let it dry.

Key is evening up those edges before you mark stitches, I use my disk sander for that, really ensures 90 degree sides and its where you get rid of most of those little pits.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

Here is Mike Tea's process:

"I'm sure it's possible but I'd do it all by hand before I'd hold my sheath near a regular belt sander. I use a 6" disc sander and a 3" drum sander for basic rough sanding with about 120 grit. This does all the contouring and rounding.

Then I hand sand from about 240 grit wet & dry to 1500 without missing any grits. I keep the leather damp and the paper dry. Then I dampen again & buff hard with a rag and then neatsfoot it lightly. That's it."

TF

 

[leatherman]

240 to 1500 not missing a grit? That gives a whole new meaning to the word labor intensive.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Any reason why the disk would be better than the large platen on my 4x36? I have a 6" disk, but it's got an abrasive on it (scotch brite) that I use for steel, and I don't want to toss it just yet. Kinda the bane with psa's.

Up to 1500? I'll try that. I have plenty of paper. On my first I went up to 1000 grit, but didn't really see much of an improvement. Then again, I must be missing something in my process since my edges kinda blow. Maybe that's it.

This seems to be one of those things where you'll get a different answer with each person you ask, but I've got no qualms trying many things.

By the way, what brand abrasives are you guys using? For lower grit paper (up to 320 I think), I'm using 3m Sandblaster Pro. The stuff is pretty awesome. For higher grits I'm using regular SiC 3m wet or dry. Need to get me some Rhyno Wet, but maybe I should try whatever you guys use.

 

[harronek]

240 to 1500 not missing a grit? That gives a whole new meaning to the word labor intensive.

The edge in the top picture I posted took somewhere between 1 to 1 1/2 hours to finish
I've got the time and the energy because I'm doing it for fun, but if I was making them for money it wouLd add significantly to the final price .


Ken

 

[Omega Leather Works]

About Mikes method... Does not using a sealant on the edge create a problem with water resistance? Is the highly polished edging enough to repel the elements? Neatsfoot alone doesn't seem like a good sealant.

Ken, I can appreciate that kind of attention to detail, and effort. My first knife, if time and materials were taken into account, would be my most expensive knife. That's why I've got to keep making sheaths. If I were to stop now, the first two would be very pricy after tallying up what I've spent on tools and material. Good thing it's a hellava lot of fun.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Oh, and instead of starting (yet another) thread, I'll ask here.

Have any of you tried a power burnisher? I'm thinking about buying one of those cocobolo drill press pro-burnishers. From the videos I've seen, they look like they'd work quite well. Another reason why I *really* want a mini-lathe, I could simply turn my own, but alas, I don't (yet) have one.

I believe the burnishers go for around 40-50 bucks. Worth it, or is the $$ better spent elsewhere (like on more leather)?

Anyone ever fashion your own makers mark? I was thinking about how I could go about this, but so far I'm drawing a blank.

 

[Horsewright]

I use a power burnisher, it's an old full size wood lath..e. I turned a piece of rosewood that was too boring for handles and have kept it chucked up....for years. Every edge I do, I do on this outfit and it really works. Not only is it less work, it does a better job. I sand to 120 on a 6x48. Then hit the edge on the lathe when the leather is damp and then again with gum when dry. I keep a stick of beeswax there and touch up the wood a little if it starts burning the leather. It's a multi speed lathe but I keep it on warp drive. I get a glass like edge that lasts. I put two coats of Tan Kote on the edges after burnishg. I get some projects back for repairs or a new sheath or something. These are after A LOT OF LIFE has happened to them. Edges are good. Sanding to extremely high grits may be invoking the law of diminishing returns if you are wanting to sell your work.

 

[Brian Avila]

I guess I will comment on the burnishing...

I wet my edges pretty well and put my grinder on the fastest it will go and then use my 2" wheel and platen sometimes. Makes the edges even and burnishes them some what at 80 grit. I then go up to 220 on my grinder and then finish the edges out to 400-600 grit by hand. Saddle soap and water with a shirt sleeve to burnish them out.

That is what I do.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I wish I could use the lathe at work to make a nice wood burnisher for my press, but the powers that be would sh*t a brick if I turned wood in a food making factory.

Anyone ever used leather edge paint? I bought some Angelus black edge paint to try out. I'm thinking about sanding off the current edge on the above sheath, then painting it. From what I've seen, it looks like it might be a great (and easy) solution. Especially when there's no need to see the layers (like on Kens edging above). It's applied in layers so it should fill any small gaps I'd think and it's supposed to be really tough and flexible. It can be finished matte or shiny. I'm not seeing a downside, but then I haven't tried it yet.

 

[leatherman]

Edge Paint, blech, the only place I've seen that stuff is on ultra cheap and really terribly made sheaths from across the border. Its a cheap easy way to make awful edges look slightly better. It doesn't wear well. A couple of knife dealers who want something for nothing tried to talk me into that and a few other "cost saving procedures" so they could relieve me of most of my income and they would make a killing off my name. Nuh uh, no. I did the math and showed him doubling his money while I made a dollar a sheath, oddly he was offended.

sorry, blunt, but its one on my list of "things I will never do on a sheath"

 

[sheathmaker]

Edge dressing or paint is pure crap and the mark of an amateur. It is not allowed inside my shop either wet or dry.

I hope I made that clear enough to convey my feelings on the subject.

Paul