My summer vacation the good and the bad (Knife Laws))

Oh man that sucks,sorry to hear it.
I carry a small torx set on me at all times,in case something like this happens.I would disassemble the folder & hand the thieving security the pieces minus the screws.
I've never had to do this,but then I never go to places that don't allow a knife.If I have to go to court,everything stays in my car.I don't fly ever.Never have & probably never will.
 
You know you should leave the politics out of it, so why don't you?
Funny how many people WANT their freedoms and families protected, but whine about restrictions on their right to do stupid and often illegal things. Are you a member of ANY organisation that will do something about it?

I didn't think i really got that political... It's just that the whole topic is just kind of teetering on the edge. What I'm saying is that the whole idea of, "Would you rather your family be unsafe?" seems like the same type of line that gets brought up during elections when candidates try to convince people that these types of restrictions are needed. That's just political in nature, but my point was mostly that I just don't agree with it and that I think it's a part of that general pandering more than it is really legitimate. Are the Taliban really going to take over the statue of liberty with slip joints? Would they even use sharp knife-like objects? I mean, really, the only thing this seems to do to be is inconvenience earnest citizens while doing virtually nothing to actually improve security.

That's my real problem with it, is that no one wants to admit that it is an inconvenience, and that citizens shouldn't just have to take the hit for "safety". Why not setup a department to mail tourists belongings back? I mean, logistically speaking they'd have to figure out where to get the salary to hire people to work it, there might be some shipping costs, etc. However, the thought is quickly dismissed in favor of the idea that it should just be up to people to check if knives are allowed before they come, and simply give their property up if not. I mean it's like people just feel that it's trivial compared to how much of a feat it would be to setup a department to handle it, but I don't really feel that it is so trivial. People should be able to feel confident that when they go to one of our nation's land marks, that they will be able to leave with all their belongings, and if the law makes that impossible then someone should step up and try to make that right, not just pawn off responsibility. Personally, if I was running a tourist attraction I'd consider that out of a model of customer service, but I guess when you're the statue of liberty you don't really need to worry about pissing your customers off.

I'm not even saying it should be required of them, I'm just saying that they should offer. However there's this idea of, "Well, that's not our problem, they should realize that after 9/11 you can't have anything like that, too bad." That is just pitiful. I mean, ends justifying means, necessary evils, those are all great ways to excuse it, but how do you really excuse being a jerk and not just offering people a way to keep their stuff. Then on top of that you question what happens to your knife, whether that security guy is just gong to pocket it and keep it, etc. You'd think people would go the little extra mile, setup some kind of way for people to mail their belongings back even if it was on their own dime, but nope, "We're keeping you safe, you shouldn't have brought it, too bad."

That's just wrong
 
I didn't think i really got that political... It's just that the whole topic is just kind of teetering on the edge. What I'm saying is that the whole idea of, "Would you rather your family be unsafe?" seems like the same type of line that gets brought up during elections when candidates try to convince people that these types of restrictions are needed. That's just political in nature, but my point was mostly that I just don't agree with it and that I think it's a part of that general pandering more than it is really legitimate. Are the Taliban really going to take over the statue of liberty with slip joints? Would they even use sharp knife-like objects? I mean, really, the only thing this seems to do to be is inconvenience earnest citizens while doing virtually nothing to actually improve security.

That's my real problem with it, is that no one wants to admit that it is an inconvenience, and that citizens shouldn't just have to take the hit for "safety". Why not setup a department to mail tourists belongings back? I mean, logistically speaking they'd have to figure out where to get the salary to hire people to work it, there might be some shipping costs, etc. However, the thought is quickly dismissed in favor of the idea that it should just be up to people to check if knives are allowed before they come, and simply give their property up if not. I mean it's like people just feel that it's trivial compared to how much of a feat it would be to setup a department to handle it, but I don't really feel that it is so trivial. People should be able to feel confident that when they go to one of our nation's land marks, that they will be able to leave with all their belongings, and if the law makes that impossible then someone should step up and try to make that right, not just pawn off responsibility. Personally, if I was running a tourist attraction I'd consider that out of a model of customer service, but I guess when you're the statue of liberty you don't really need to worry about pissing your customers off.

I'm not even saying it should be required of them, I'm just saying that they should offer. However there's this idea of, "Well, that's not our problem, they should realize that after 9/11 you can't have anything like that, too bad." That is just pitiful. I mean, ends justifying means, necessary evils, those are all great ways to excuse it, but how do you really excuse being a jerk and not just offering people a way to keep their stuff. Then on top of that you question what happens to your knife, whether that security guy is just gong to pocket it and keep it, etc. You'd think people would go the little extra mile, setup some kind of way for people to mail their belongings back even if it was on their own dime, but nope, "We're keeping you safe, you shouldn't have brought it, too bad."

That's just wrong

Nobody thought Al-Queda could/would fly and airplane into the twin towers either.
We were totally unprepared for such a thing to happen.
Better to be prepared and not need it, than to need it and not be prepared.
Like it or not,to be vigilant, some small things must be sacrificed for the greater good.
 
Nobody thought Al-Queda could/would fly and airplane into the twin towers either.
We were totally unprepared for such a thing to happen.
Better to be prepared and not need it, than to need it and not be prepared.
Like it or not,to be vigilant, some small things must be sacrificed for the greater good.

Eh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, but I'm still saying that just out of general courtesy they should make available some way for people to get their property back. I can see it being the case that the person must pay a retainer fee or shipping costs or something though. I mean, it was the person's responsibility to know the laws and to keep the thing at home, but they shouldn't be penalized for that, it should just be their responsibility to pay for it to be shipped home or held.
 
Eh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, but I'm still saying that just out of general courtesy they should make available some way for people to get their property back. I can see it being the case that the person must pay a retainer fee or shipping costs or something though. I mean, it was the person's responsibility to know the laws and to keep the thing at home, but they shouldn't be penalized for that, it should just be their responsibility to pay for it to be shipped home or held.

You really can't expect that kind of coddling. You admit yourself it's the persons responsibility. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. With some people, if they arent penalised, they never learn.
 
How ironic that you were at the Statue of Liberty when this happened.

Me? I would have kept the knife and left the line. At that point the statue and what it supposedly stands for is exposed as a lie, and I would have no further interest in exploring such a false monument.

ha ha best commet ever
WH
 
I would have left the line and moved onto another attraction that does not involve security screening or customer distrust. If they want my money for their business venture then they have to treat me like a guest and not a criminal
 
How ironic that you were at the Statue of Liberty when this happened.

Me? I would have kept the knife and left the line. At that point the statue and what it supposedly stands for is exposed as a lie, and I would have no further interest in exploring such a false monument.
I would also have kept the knife and left the line. Damned mall-cop types on a power trip. I would have spent the money elsewhere, in a place where my rights were respected.
 
I would also have kept the knife and left the line. Damned mall-cop types on a power trip. I would have spent the money elsewhere, in a place where my rights were respected.

Your powers of perception are quite astute, from so far away. How do you know that? Could it be the screener was just doing his job as instructed?
 
Unless I had some kind of personal attachment to the knife, I would have given it up and stayed with my family.


I also think this kind of BS is what the Muslim terrorist gained by the 9/11 attacks!:mad:
 
It became very interesting discussion, I'd like to make some things clear, I put my family above all so there was no question weather to leave them or to keep the knife. A day before we were at the Empire State Building where they took my knife and kept it in a small closet,along with MANY others, so I have no reason to think that it will different at the Statue of Liberty. Having a closet or even a small drawer with some paper notes with numbers is not that difficult to arrange, the NYC authorities had successfully done much more complicated projects. Anyway that was finished and I have two other peanuts (a threatening weapons:)) a New CV Case and Vintage Cattaraugus.
Mike
 
It became very interesting discussion, I'd like to make some things clear, I put my family above all so there was no question weather to leave them or to keep the knife. A day before we were at the Empire State Building where they took my knife and kept it in a small closet,along with MANY others, so I have no reason to think that it will different at the Statue of Liberty. Having a closet or even a small drawer with some paper notes with numbers is not that difficult to arrange, the NYC authorities had successfully done much more complicated projects. Anyway that was finished and I have two other peanuts (a threatening weapons:)) a New CV Case and Vintage Cattaraugus.
Mike

I'm a bit surprised that there wasn't a system in place to hold your item for you. I know that when I forget and find a slip joint in my pockect when entering a Federal or State building near me, they always hold the item for me (it's been awhile so this may have changed).

I can imagine that if an attraction like the Statue of Liberty gets huge numbers of visitors, that they may have had to rethink holding items for visitors.

A quick Google search returned two responses to the visitor per day question; 15,000 and 19,000 per day. I'm sure that varies but that's still alott of people to move through security checkpoints in a day. Oops I just noticed these figures are for the Statue and Ells Island so maybe that number is less for Statue visitors.
 
How ironic that you were at the Statue of Liberty when this happened.

Me? I would have kept the knife and left the line. At that point the statue and what it supposedly stands for is exposed as a lie, and I would have no further interest in exploring such a false monument.

THIS!!! 100%

BTW Karda mentioned people wanting their families protected. Just so nobody ever misunderstands my position, I NEVER asked the gvt to protect my family. I believe its a mans job to protect his own family, all I ask from the gvt is basically to be left alone. Careful with that whole "greater good" logic, slippery slope bud. Didn't some old timer say something about trading liberty for safety :-D smart fella, that guy, what's his name.
 
Your powers of perception are quite astute, from so far away. How do you know that? Could it be the screener was just doing his job as instructed?
Screeners? Nothing but LEO wannabes that couldn't make it through the vetting process to score a seat at the police academy. Their only other choice would be mall-cop. TSA has a lot of these losers in their ranks. That should say it all! (LOL!)
 
They must have thought he was a terrorist, with his horrible and threatening case peanut. That knife could influence him to harm others, we wouldnt want that now would we? It is something that could possible hurt someone. we should defenatly ban it. Oh oh oh... I think we should ban automobiles too!!! those hut people!! we should ban anything that could possibbly hurt someone!! no pencils, autos, guns, knives, oh God help us if there are guns and knives!! ... whole bunch of BS protectionism
 
I probably would have left the line and filed a complaint. (I know it probably wouldn't matter. ) However I understand the other point of view. And since my family consists of my wife it would not have been a big deal. I do respect your choice just wouldn't have been mine.

Having said that, the poster who states that we have to sacrifice small things for se unity is wrong IMHO. That's how laws snowball until everything is illegal. We should not sacrifice freedom for security. The trick is to sway public opinion to our side before it's too late. That's why I belong to Kniferights.
 
You know you should leave the politics out of it, so why don't you?
Funny how many people WANT their freedoms and families protected, but whine about restrictions on their right to do stupid and often illegal things. Are you a member of ANY organisation that will do something about it?

Funny how people who want to maintain the status quo (by definition, a conservative with a small c) whine on about leaving politics out of discussion. Physician, heal thyself.

Nobody thought Al-Queda could/would fly and airplane into the twin towers either.
We were totally unprepared for such a thing to happen.
Better to be prepared and not need it, than to need it and not be prepared.
Like it or not,to be vigilant, some small things must be sacrificed for the greater good.

The fact that it happened once is preparation enough. What do you think the chances of anyone (even a team of 5) holding an entire plane hostage with small knives and flying it into any building, post 9-11? They were able to rely on people's inaction, because everyone on those planes believed they (or someone) could buy/negotiate their way out of the situation and everyone would end up going home with a story that might get them on the 6-o'clock news. When it became apparent that this wasn't going to happen, the results are pretty much what happened with flight 93. Some recent examples of what happens when you try to hijack a plane, post 9-11. The distinct lack of hijack attempts post 9 11 has little to do with airport security confiscating nail files from ladies and more to do with the fact that Terrorists are aware what the results are likely to be.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/2...-flight-crew-after-he-took-stewardess-hostage
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/...kish-airlines-flight-20110106-091908-691.html

I also wonder what the logic of confiscating a Case peanut is based on. Would a terrorist force all the people on the statue of liberty to crowd into one place, thereby causing it to topple into the street? Would they force the pilot (of the statue) to crash it into an airplane? Would the flourishing of said Peanut cause mass panic resulting in people being trampled in their haste to escape the danger? Please explain what "greater good" is being furthered by this course of action. All I can see is the Greater good of having a population accept illegal confiscation of their property by the state and the unquestioning obedience of dictates handed down by some nameless authority for the most tenuous of reasons.

Unless I had some kind of personal attachment to the knife, I would have given it up and stayed with my family.


I also think this kind of BS is what the Muslim terrorist gained by the 9/11 attacks!:mad:
Exactly.
 
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