My take on the difference between a Bushcraft and Survival knife.

[JamesofArc]

If somebody already stated this please forgive me, I have not read all the answers.

My bushcraft and survival knife are the same, a red Swiss army knife. The difference is how I use the twizzers. If I am in survival mode I use them to catch little ants for protein. If I am in bushcraft mode I use them to pick out splinters from whittling.

 

[RayseM]

^ Funny

Ray

 

[Juany118]

So any "one tool" option is a "survival" knife? So if I go take just a Mora on a day hike or just a Vic Classic on the bus, it is "survival"?

I'm not following.

Again, I feel like you got your teeth sunk in on defining these terms and you are not letting go. Sink or swim on this thing.

I think the previous arguments, which I missed, are missing the historical back drop of knives in the woods. You had woodcraft knives that we're designed basically to be part of a tool kit of sorts. You mentioned Moras, which I think many would fall into this category.

It wasn't until the turn of the 20th century that what we might call a survival knife was really introduced. They were essentially Bowie knives whose length was chopped down (the classic Bowie, is believed by many to have actually been developed to be as much a weapon as a tool, with the clip point for thrusting and the cross guard for hand protection ). These "new" knives however were called "hunting knives."

These types of knives were purchased in bulk by the military in WWII to be thrown into aviator and naval survival kits. As we get past the mid 20th century we see the even more purpose built models that need to meet the goal of breaking acrylic glass windows, cutting through aircraft skin etc.

So you had knives like these used for woodcraft

And this, which is part of the Caldwell Collection, c1780.

Often not full tang, thinner blade profile, no cross guard and a blade shape that I would argue isn't ideal for chopping or digging etc. It served it's woodcraft purpose next to the axe, tomahawk and/or saw and if you HAD to perform other tasks it would, but know the limitations and where it sits in the "tool kit".

This is opposed to the "other" knife that, again before the marketing BS, various Militaries dubbed a "survival knife" because they wanted their airmen to have a one tool option for the "oh crap" moment, starting roughly 150 years later.

So clearly, from a historical perspective, irrespective of marketing, there is a difference imo because even today you have solid woodcraft/camp knives that aren't that different (in general) from their 18th century ancestors and then you have to knives that were born out of military necessity but that the companies then marketed to the civilian. But when I think "woodcraft" I think of those 18th and early 19th century knives, knives that had a place, that we're basically allowed to "just be knives". /Shrug.

PS, I think more than a couple Mora's, which I like a lot btw, actually fit in that same "spot" as what I think of when I think 18th and 19th century wood craft.

 

[bikerector]

A survival knife is the bushcraft knife you were carrying when you forgot how to get back to camp.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

I know some people think the difference is marketing speak but I wanted to put my take out there and see what people thought of it.

Survivalcraft and Bushcraft to me are two different things. Survival being "oh crap I am in trouble I need to get out of this and back to civilization." So you do what you have to do to stay warm, dry, hydrated etc until either search and rescue arrives or your own navigation and fitness get you to civilization.

Bushcraft is "I can live here and sustain myself virtually indefinitely, I like it here."

Because of that I feel the Bushcrafter would have more than the 72 he bugout kit etc. They will not only have a solid knife but also an axe and a saw of some sort etc. for the heavy chores like wood processing. You will have a shovel of sort etc. Hence your knife can be tailored for finer tasks, feather sticking, fine notching for traps, stakes etc.

So a survival knife would be one that is a beefy jack of all trades tool. It can get the job done that the Bushcraft knife does but not as well. You can also reliably chop with it, baton, etc but not as well as an axe or saw. You dig a hole if you need to, but not as well as a shovel.

So a Bushcraft knife would be one that takes into account you have myltmult tools or even the ability to make them. Survival knives are about having a one tool option.

Thoughts?

I don't like the term "survival knife." It doesn't make any sense.

If you're not in a survival situation then it's just a knife. If you are stuck in a survival situation then any knife is a survival knife.

To think that a knife could be designed for survival is absurd. What's good in one situation might be awful in another. Regardless, having any knife is better than not having one at all.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

Is there really a difference? A stout, fixed blade, full tang knife will work with just about any label you stick to it.

I don't think I've ever seen a knife labeled as "poop knife" but the all seem to exist.

 

[Juany118]

I don't like the term "survival knife." It doesn't make any sense.

If you're not in a survival situation then it's just a knife. If you are stuck in a survival situation then any knife is a survival knife.

To think that a knife could be designed for survival is absurd. What's good in one situation might be awful in another. Regardless, having any knife is better than not having one at all.

Agreed on the last, but look to the brief history I gave on the survival knife above. The idea of the survival knife when the Military started putting them in aviator and sailor survival kits was "we have limited space, we need something that at least passes for a one tool option". Heck the new air Force standard, afaik, also requires a non-conductive handle so that the insane idea of cutting through an aircraft's skin doesn't result in electricution if they cut into hidden wires. They really are trying to cover all the bases BUT it's in a specific, small package, military "get safe until S&R finds you" context. Somewhere, somehow, the companies that made these started marketing them to civilians, where a majority of the time you can have the right tools for the job.

 

[ggw]

My take on the difference between a Bushcraft and Survival knife

Bushcraft Knife

Survival Knife

 

[Juany118]

Is there really a difference? A stout, fixed blade, full tang knife will work with just about any label you stick to it.

I don't think I've ever seen a knife labeled as "poop knife" but the all seem to exist.

What the civilian market tries to sell us is indeed, to a degree, labeled hype, bit it's founded in the Military which hasfound a need for a specific labeled knife, they even have codified requirements that must be met such as the Airforce's AESK. The best explanation I have ever seen for the knife is...

"What was the Air Force Survival Knife intended to do? Well, it was built to be packed away and stored in USAF Survival Kits and not used until an emergency. Which in a way is similar to much of the equipment in our own Bug Out Bags. Typically most of a Air Force Survival Knife’s life would be packed away and not used until an emergency situation dictated its use, to assist in helping our down Airmen return with honor. But once unpacked it needed to be able to do everything from aiding the Airmen in escaping a downed aircraft to building fire, self defense, or whatever else needed to be done to help the survivor meet their basic needs... First, the knife should be relatively maintenance free since it is made to be packed away for several months at a time...Primarily the Air Force Survival Knife was made for those brute force type tasks like batoning through a piece of wood, digging a Dakota Hole Fire, digging a seepage well to get water. Or allegedly even sawing its way through the aluminum skin of an aircraft. I’m not sure if that is even possible, but if it were I imagine that would take a considerable amount of time and effort! In any case,there is no doubt that it was built to be a multi-purpose tool, not just a cutting tool. Many people are probably saying to themselves right now “What?… Use a knife for digging or sawing your way through metal”. Well yes…USAF Aircrew Survival kits and vests have to be small and lightweight. As such including a shovel, saw, and axe isn’t an option on most aircraft. So it falls to the Air Force Survival Knife to carry the burden of many tools."

Have an issue with the label I suppose blame the US Air Force (and Airmy Air Corp) since WWII? Not trying to be snarky btw but that ultimately is the origin of the label/concept.
It just seems odd that people would dismiss the term as it was first coined by a regulated agency because of BS civilian marketing.

/Shrug.

 

[22-rimfire]

I tend to agree with your initial description. On the other hand, I honestly have never had to survive in the woods and my bushcrafting skills are limited... whatever bushcrafting means....crafting bush, I guess. I'm generally happy and feel good if I have a reliable SAK in my pocket to be honest and I'll take the rest as it comes. Honey, I'll be home for dinner....

 

[Juany118]

I tend to agree with your initial description. On the other hand, I honestly have never had to survive in the woods and my bushcrafting skills are limited... whatever bushcrafting means....crafting bush, I guess. I'm generally happy and feel good if I have a reliable SAK in my pocket to be honest and I'll take the rest as it comes. Honey, I'll be home for dinner....

I think the term Bushcraft is marketing. That's why I prefer "woodcraft". Essentially the idea that with solid metal hand tools you can not just survive but live in the wilderness. Make a home, not just a shelter. Make low stress tools, like eating implements, maybe even some high stress tools like a wedge from wood to split fire wood, after a blade cut the initial notch of course.

In short, "survival" is about getting back to civilization. "Woodcraft"/"Bushcraft", to me at least, is about being able to "check out" from civilization and still having a comfortable, if vigorous, life. It can get down to knowing how to make a natural version of a topical antibiotic if you want to go that far tbh.

That's why my idea of "living history"/reenactment is a week or two at best. I like my technology too much, but learning that history is fun as hell.

 

[22-rimfire]

Wood crafting is what Horace Kephart and Nessmuk did. In the case of Kephart, I don't think he really wanted to live in the woods although in his day in rural western NC, you were living in the woods even if you were sleeping in a cabin/house. It is about making do with little; that is wood crafting. Fashioning implements or structures at times is just part of "surviving". Confusing, huh.

 

[Juany118]

Wood crafting is what Horace Kephart and Nessmuk did. In the case of Kephart, I don't think he really wanted to live in the woods although in his day in rural western NC, you were living in the woods even if you were sleeping in a cabin/house. It is about making do with little; that is wood crafting. Fashioning implements or structures at times is just part of "surviving". Confusing, huh.

That last I think depends on your context. I am looking at it from a historical perspective. In short "how do I bring the concept of 18th and early 19th century tools into a 21st century context." If you just need to survive your way back to "civilization" do you need to do so by making a wooden spoon? I don't think so. But is being able to make one if I don't want to return a useful skill? I would say yep. A metal spoon can bend, especially a spoon of the period I
speak. It can be hard to picture but to me "woodcraft"/"bushcraft" is about a way to live self sufficiently in a true wilderness frontier. Survival is about getting back to, or having regular access to, civilization to replace tools.

If you are looking at the former, you want to have tools designed for more specific purposes. Some for "grunt" work, some for finer work, some for in between. For the later, 1, maybe 2 to do the basic nitty gritty, just so you can get from point A to B.

 

[sabre cat]

Someone hasn't seen Rambo 1
2,3,4....92...

Ah, but I did! At least Rambo 1. IIRC, it was titled First Blood. Can't say I remember how many more I watched. And...I wanted a knife. Then common sense started to take hold.

How many films did they produce, anyway?

 

[dropback]

...
How many films did they produce, anyway?

That should be common knowledge
4 is the answer

 

[Mikel_24]

I'd be more concerned with .... 'survival coat' [waterproof & windproof coat], ..... 'survival trousers' [waterproof] .... 'survival boots' [my walking boots]. .... 'survival re-hydration kit' [water bottle].

All kidding aside, this is something to keep in mind. Your clothes and geat must match the possible scenarios you may find yourself in trouble. I have been in two situations (some would call them life threatening) and believe me, none of them required a knife (Spyderco Rescue in my pocket in both sitations). Once was an unexpected snow storm at 4000 in the Mont Blanc range (Alps), we dug out a snow cave and spent the night in it, quite comfortable I must say. And the other one was a bigger screw up, we got stuck at the top of a climb, also with sub-freezing temps, no snow to dig a cave and no gear other than the climbing rack and empty backpacks. We spent a misserable night shivering. Again, a knife didn't mean anything.

Care more about what you wear than about the knife. Clothing has much more impact in your survival than a knife. IMHO.

Mikel

 

[marcinek]

It wasn't until the turn of the 20th century that what we might call a survival knife was really introduced. They were essentially Bowie knives whose length was chopped down (the classic Bowie, is believed by many to have actually been developed to be as much a weapon as a tool, with the clip point for thrusting and the cross guard for hand protection ). These "new" knives however were called "hunting knives."

Nope. First, the original Bowie knives were fighters...not tools.

Second, as I posted earlier in this thread

In Levine's book he talks about "outdoors" knives of the early 1900s. Many were just slightly scaled down versions of the "Bowies" of the time (which looked nothing like Bowie's knife anyway). Despite the fact that they were too thick to be slicers and too thin to be choppers, they sold like hotcakes. "Bowie" was hot, "outdoors" was hot. The design didn't matter to people.

those scaled down "Bowies" that were introduced at the time were for people partaking in the new "outdoor recreation" craze. Those knives were outdoor recreation knives intended for what we would call bushcraft. Even though they didn't work for that and the owners didn't know or care.

It is true that many of those early outdoor enthusiasts did bring their bushcraft knives with them into combat in the world wars as combat/fighting/utility knives.

Again, you are hung up on forcing "square" knives into these "round" names, which you are certainly welcome to do.

marcinek out.

 

[22-rimfire]

All kidding aside, this is something to keep in mind. Your clothes and geat must match the possible scenarios you may find yourself in trouble.....
Care more about what you wear than about the knife. Clothing has much more impact in your survival than a knife.

We can hope that our clothing choices accommodate some possible diversity. The knife need is often just a comfort that you have it with you. Kind of like these thermal blankets (reflective) that are available; stick one in your day pack just in case and you pretty much just carry it around for years without needing it.

 

[22-rimfire]

Nope. First, the original Bowie knives were fighters...not tools.

Those scaled down "Bowies" that were introduced at the time were for people partaking in the new "outdoor recreation" craze. Those knives were outdoor recreation knives intended for what we would call bushcraft. Even though they didn't work for that and the owners didn't know or care.

The first bowies were fighters. Everything changed with Henry Ford (Model T) and the automobile in general coming into regular use. Most people wouldn't ride a horse 50 miles+ just to camp and "enjoy nature". The world got a lot smaller when automobiles came into regular use.

Nothing has changed with knives in general for survival, bushcraft, woodscraft etc.... most never really get used more than a little bit at best because folders are so much easier to carry and handle most knife cutting chores.

 

[marcinek]

Everything changed with Henry Ford (Model T) and the automobile in general coming into regular use. Most people wouldn't ride a horse 50 miles+ just to camp and "enjoy nature". Nothing has changed with knives in general for survival, bushcraft, woodscraft etc.... most never really get used more than a little bit at best because folders are so much easier to carry and handle most knife cutting chores.

True! And most people couldn't "enjoy nature" prior to that. In fact, one went out onto nature when they were forced to hunt (often poach off the rich dude's land) for "survival", kinda making the knives prior to that "survival knives"...throwing yet another wrench into the OP's naming conventions.