My thoughts on the recent flood of warranty threads.

[9blades]

First of all my intentions are not to place blame or insult anyone, I simply want to state an opinion.

(This thread will mainly focus on benchmade, spyderco, and Kershaw/zero tolorance)

In the past months there have been a steady stream of warranty threads (first in the Kershaw sub forum and more recently in the Spyderco sub forum) and for the most part they have been negative, I'm irritated by the fact that people choose to post about negative experiences and keep the positive to themselves (that being said there're some positive threads posted)

In my opinion 99 percent of the time the problems people have are due to communication or poor knowledge of the warranty.

In the case of communication. It's easy to miss an email (especially when you get the volume a warranty department might) before you start a thread saying your disappointed with a company not answering your email, email a second time. Or better yet give the warranty department a call (their number should be clearly listed on there website)

About the warranty, read it thoroughly, if it's not covered it's not covered. For the most part the only thing warranties won't cover is you breaking your knife (this is a generalization) there are exceptions like clip replacements and screws (re-blading from Kershaw and benchmade) and normal wear.

In person I've had the pleasure of meeting people from kershaw and benchmades warranty departments specifically Thomas Welk and Nolan Kidwell. Both good people. And over email spyderco's Charlynn. Responses to my emails have been extremely prompt and always friendly.

Also I wanted to add that I realize Benchmade doesn't get many negative threads, but I thought they should be mentioned.

My bottom line,
People need to realize that posting a negative thread has a sizable affect on company's reputation, if you saw 5 negative threads about a company's warranty and only 2 positive what would you think?

Think before you post, and if possible give people the benefit of the Doubt, the people in warranty departments get paid to help, give them a chance. they won't bite

Lastly if you intend to post in this thread please keep it civil and respect others opinions.

Cheers!

-Kirby

P.S
I would like to point out the fact that I realize I'm biased, I know people within these company's (not spyderco) and enjoy each, which is well represented by my signature and the associations I've chosen to make and is also why I've chosen to start this thread.

 

[Kyle K]

Regarding communication, or lack thereof - when a knife manufacturer does not respond to negative posts in their own sub-forum in a timely manner, it allows the negative dialogue to escalate. Whether it's fueled by haters or fanboys doesn't matter. Some of the recent negative threads continued for over a week before any response from the company involved. These matters could have been nipped in the bud, even with just a basic acknowledgement that someone at the company was listening. I know that the people working at these companies have a lot on their plates. That's a given when you are part of a successful enterprise, but I don't understand why a company representative would not respond quickly when their reputation is being questioned. Aren't they monitoring what goes on in their own sub-forum?

 

[9blades]

Regarding communication, or lack thereof - when a knife manufacturer does not respond to negative posts in their own sub-forum in a timely manner, it allows the negative dialogue to escalate. Whether it's fueled by haters or fanboys doesn't matter. Some of the recent negative threads continued for over a week before any response from the company involved. These matters could have been nipped in the bud, even with just a basic acknowledgement that someone at the company was listening. I know that the people working at these companies have a lot on their plates. That's a given when you are part of a successful enterprise, but I don't understand why a company representative would not respond quickly when their reputation is being questioned. Aren't they monitoring what goes on in their own sub-forum?

You make a valid point and one I agree with. some kind of acknowledgement would make a difference.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I am looking forward to seeing how Case, Queen and Great Eastern take care of my knives that I sent them. I got an email from Queen about the knife, got a postcard from Case letting me know that my knives arrived and they would be back to me in about two months. I had to call GEC and let them know my knife was sitting at the PO, it had to be signed for. Hopefully they can pick it up, insurance required it to be signed for.

Chris Reeve, Spyderco, Benchmade, Queen and others have taken care of me in the past.

 

[Honed_Edge]

I think another aspect of the problem is peoples expectations. They want a Manix or Griptilian to have perfect centering, bevel grinds, etc... Some fail to realize that these are (not cheap) relatively inexpensive knives. Get a micrometer and all of our knives have "problems". If the knife is ever going to be used sharpening over time will fix grind issues. Centering can usually be fixed without taking anything apart with a bit of research and time.

Yet another aspect of this problem is one of reporting bias. If you look at "the flood or warranty threads" it's about 1 complaint per 1000 knives. Bad news always beats out good, ever watch the news? People need to remember they are seeing a slanted view of the actual quality. The overwhelming majority of Spyders, Benches and Kershaws are great out of the box!

Yes, another point to add. People now a day are TOO IMPATIENT! If they don't get a reply in 15 minutes then something is amiss. Texting and email have made a here and now way of thinking. So what if it takes two days. From dealing with phone companies, roofers, cable companies and the like these knife companies are at the top of the customer service game.

Finally, about Benchmade having so few complaints. You must admit they are the king of customer service. They go out of their way and exceed the warranty all the time. It is a bit foolish to expect all companies to go above and beyond what they warranty states.

If more brick and mortar stores existed and people could see and feel the quality blade, then all these foolish threads would never exist. Once one of these awesome modern knives hits your hand it's obvious all the complaints are empty.

However, companies must adapt to meed the demands of the customers. Perhaps times are a changing and customer service needs to as well. I agree that a simple sentence or two in some of these threads would have stopped it from growing and shown the company is serious about making people happy! I'm not going to stop buying from my favorite companies. In the last month I have ordered 7 knives for family members and guess what.... all perfect.

 

[9blades]

I am looking forward to seeing how Case, Queen and Great Eastern take care of my knives that I sent them. I got an email from Queen about the knife, got a postcard from Case letting me know that my knives arrived and they would be back to me in about two months. I had to call GEC and let them know my knife was sitting at the PO, it had to be signed for. Hopefully they can pick it up, insurance required it to be signed for.

Chris Reeve, Spyderco, Benchmade, Queen and others have taken care of me in the past.

Im curious as well, I haven't had much (if any) experience with any of the company mentioned.

I think another aspect of the problem is peoples expectations. They want a Manix or Griptilian to have perfect centering, bevel grinds, etc... Some fail to realize that these are (not cheap) relatively inexpensive knives. Get a micrometer and all of our knives have "problems". If the knife is ever going to be used sharpening over time will fix grind issues. Centering can usually be fixed without taking anything apart with a bit of research and time.

I agree. A good deal of the "problems" we see won't actually impede the function of a knife.

Yet another aspect of this problem is one of reporting bias. If you look at "the flood or warranty threads" it's about 1 complaint per 1000 knives. Bad news always beats out good, ever watch the news? People need to remember they are seeing a slanted view of the actual quality. The overwhelming majority of Spyders, Benches and Kershaws are great out of the box!

Well said! And I agree, I've handled a good deal of BenchMade/Kershaw/Spyderco knives and I haven't see any problems. I haven't seen any problems with the knives I've bought either


Yes, another point to add. People now a day are TOO IMPATIENT! If they don't get a reply in 15 minutes then something is amiss. Texting and email have made a here and now way of thinking. So what if it takes two days. From dealing with phone companies, roofers, cable companies and the like these knife companies are at the top of the customer service game.

I'm guilty of being impatient and once again I agree...I remember waiting for my first zippo haha, my dad said I could have his if I sent it into the zippo factory to be repaired (took about two weeks, seemed like ages)

Finally, about Benchmade having so few complaints. You must admit they are the king of customer service. They go out of their way and exceed the warranty all the time. It is a bit foolish to expect all companies to go above and beyond what they warranty states.

king is a good way to put it I spent almost a hour talking to some of the customer service reps at blade show, really nice people.


If more brick and mortar stores existed and people could see and feel the quality blade, then all these foolish threads would never exist. Once one of these awesome modern knives hits your hand it's obvious all the complaints are empty.

However, companies must adapt to meed the demands of the customers. Perhaps times are a changing and customer service needs to as well. I agree that a simple sentence or two in some of these threads would have stopped it from growing and shown the company is serious about making people happy! I'm not going to stop buying from my favorite companies. In the last month I have ordered 7 knives for family members and guess what.... all perfect.

it is what it is I guess...over all they're great company's and the people that have bad experiences will continue to be the minority.

 

[Creaky Bones]

There was a recent customer service complaint thread about Kabar. The kabar rep posted a respectful apology in short order, they closed the thread down to keep kabar supporters from shredding the complaintant, and they sent every single person who posted a new knife, regardless of their view. The apology was enough for me to continue to buy their products. The free knife was above and beyond. I wasn't one of the posters, but I will remain one of their customers. That's how it's done right. On the other end of the spectrum, I replied to an existing post once regarding a Kershaw knife that I purchased. My post was respectful and informative. They had recently released a knife that had an entirely different grind than the images shown on all seller websites and the Kershaw homepage. My response was greeted with an antagonistic response from the Kershaw rep, which is why I returned the knife and chose not to purchase from them in the future.

Quality customer service makes all the difference in the world.

 

[cncpro11]

There was a recent customer service complaint thread about Kabar. The kabar rep posted a respectful apology in short order, they closed the thread down to keep kabar supporters from shredding the complaintant, and they sent every single person who posted a new knife, regardless of their view. The apology was enough for me to continue to buy their products. The free knife was above and beyond. I wasn't one of the posters, but I will remain one of their customers. That's how it's done right. On the other end of the spectrum, I replied to an existing post once regarding a Kershaw knife that I purchased. My post was respectful and informative. They had recently released a knife that had an entirely different grind than the images shown on all seller websites and the Kershaw homepage. My response was greeted with an antagonistic response from the Kershaw rep, which is why I returned the knife and chose not to purchase from them in the future.

Quality customer service makes all the difference in the world.

I agree 100%
A company is only as good as it's customer service. You can make the best product on Earth, but treat your customers poorly and your business will suffer, and soon folks aren't going to want to buy what you are selling.

As far as the Spyderco response, all I took away from that is they are very busy, only have one person in CS because it is just too specialized and they can't hire or train anyone else, and the people posting the negative experiences are trolls with an agenda.
They offered NO proof about the troll thing, so I guess they expect people to just take their word for it.
The fans are calling for the heads of people posting negative experiences, but I am also a fan of the top brands and have spent many thousands of dollars on their products, it is my opinion that our favorite companies need to be held to a higher standard, and not be allowed to treat the customer with such blatant disregard.
Telling customers to quit buying online and go to the store and pick out their own blade, sending xerox form letters back with a knife they refuse to repair, and letting the negative threads go on for such a long time and then when they do reply it's "we are too busy."
That is just downright incredibly bad form.

 

[9blades]

There was a recent customer service complaint thread about Kabar. The kabar rep posted a respectful apology in short order, they closed the thread down to keep kabar supporters from shredding the complaintant, and they sent every single person who posted a new knife, regardless of their view. The apology was enough for me to continue to buy their products. The free knife was above and beyond. I wasn't one of the posters, but I will remain one of their customers. That's how it's done right. On the other end of the spectrum, I replied to an existing post once regarding a Kershaw knife that I purchased. My post was respectful and informative. They had recently released a knife that had an entirely different grind than the images shown on all seller websites and the Kershaw homepage. My response was greeted with an antagonistic response from the Kershaw rep, which is why I returned the knife and chose not to purchase from them in the future.

Quality customer service makes all the difference in the world.

I honestly dunno what to say...before I say anything could I have a link to these two threads please? (Not trying to be sarcastic, just want to have all the information)

I agree 100%
A company is only as good as it's customer service. You can make the best product on Earth, but treat your customers poorly and your business will suffer, and soon folks aren't going to want to buy what you are selling.

As far as the Spyderco response, all I took away from that is they are very busy, only have one person in CS because it is just too specialized and they can't hire or train anyone else, and the people posting the negative experiences are trolls with an agenda.
They offered NO proof about the troll thing, so I guess they expect people to just take their word for it.
The fans are calling for the heads of people posting negative experiences, but I am also a fan of the top brands and have spent many thousands of dollars on their products, it is my opinion that our favorite companies need to be held to a higher standard, and not be allowed to treat the customer with such blatant disregard.
Telling customers to quit buying online and go to the store and pick out their own blade, sending xerox form letters back with a knife they refuse to repair, and letting the negative threads go on for such a long time and then when they do reply it's "we are too busy."
That is just downright incredibly bad form.

I agree with what's in bold. The fact that they offers no proof in my opinion is good form, the person in question would have gotten trolled themselves and gained a bad reputation. That being said I wish they would have privately banned that person instead of leaving it be. And yes I'm taking spydercos word for it.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1078239-Spyderco-Warranty-amp-Repair-Customer-Service-Response-from-Spyderco/page2

 

[cncpro11]

Niner, I know you are young, but I have been in manufacturing all of my adult life, and a big part of that was in CS.
I would have been fired on the spot if I dared to treat a customer the way some of these companies do.
As far as the excuses go, to publicly come out and make excuses and blame the customer is both unprofessional and disgraceful at best, and no company that does that is worthy of my business.

 

[9blades]

Niner, I know you are young, but I have been in manufacturing all of my adult life, and a big part of that was in CS.
I would have been fired on the spot if I dared to treat a customer the way some of these companies do.
As far as the excuses go, to publicly come out and make excuses and blame the customer is both unprofessional and disgraceful at best, and no company that does that is worthy of my business.

Young yes, but I'm old enough to know when to bow out, it's obvious you have the greater knowledge of the subject. So I'll stop before I say something ignorant. my name is Kirby by the way.

 

[Ernie1980]

I have dealt with the following production companies with warranty issues:
Ka bar
CRK
Benchmade

All took care of my needs in a timely way. If a company or maker goes above and beyond, I DO post a positive review about the experience. If they just took care of business, I don't feel a praise is needed.

 

[cncpro11]

Young yes, but I'm old enough to know when to bow out, it's obvious you have the greater knowledge of the subject. So I'll stop before I say something ignorant. my name is Kirby by the way.

Don't sell yourself short Kirby, your a great asset to the forum, and this is a relevant topic btw.

 

[UserBanned]

As a Customer Service Manager for a major guitar & drum company in the USA, I see the good, the bad, and the ugly side of consumers. As someone mentioned above, the flood of social media websites (and email) have made the modern consumer impatient, demanding, and many times completely unreasonable. At my company, we have a team of 10 Customer Service reps, 1 Manager (me), and 1 person dedicated to Social Media (Twitter, Facebook, etc...). We recognized the need for someone to be monitoring the plethora of social media outlets at all hours of the day, so the position was born. However, we are among the few, not the many, who understand this. The vast majority of companies who provide a product to consumers do not have a dedicated social media expert. And message boards / forums are probably the most archaic form of social media and may get the least amount of attention, as it is not as easily tracked as it is with the sites that have dedicated mobile interfaces.

So what I am trying to say is, I would be willing to bet that a lot of these knife companies may only have a handful of employees working on consumer complaints, warranty claims, and the like. Cut them some slack and be patient.

My only experience with a knife warranty was for my Buck Rush AO knife. I disassembled it trying to clean it and lost all kinds of parts...springs, screws, etc... I was a few beers into my evening when I attempted this. So I put it all back together as best I could, wrapped it up and shipped it back to BUCK. 2 months later, I got my knife back. Aside from wear marks that I put on the knife, this thing was back to being as good as new. Completely reassembled, sharpened, cleaned, lubricated, etc.. And they didn't charge me a dime. The funny part was, there was ZERO correspondence. I never called, never emailed, never wrote a letter, never posted to their facebook or made a thread on a forum. NOTHING! And they hooked me up on something that I clearly f**ked up.

That is all. Thanks for reading.
UserBanned

 

[9blades]

Don't sell yourself short Kirby, your a great asset to the forum, and this is a relevant topic btw.

Well darn, you're making me blush and I agree this is a relevant topic. As much as this hurts me to admit my last post was purely because my opinion is biased and might contain just a little fanboy-ism. At some point I have to stop myself before I start saying things based on my biases and not actual facts.

 

[9blades]

As a Customer Service Manager for a major guitar & drum company in the USA, I see the good, the bad, and the ugly side of consumers. As someone mentioned above, the flood of social media websites (and email) have made the modern consumer impatient, demanding, and many times completely unreasonable. At my company, we have a team of 10 Customer Service reps, 1 Manager (me), and 1 person dedicated to Social Media (Twitter, Facebook, etc...). We recognized the need for someone to be monitoring the plethora of social media outlets at all hours of the day, so the position was born. However, we are among the few, not the many, who understand this. The vast majority of companies who provide a product to consumers do not have a dedicated social media expert. And message boards / forums are probably the most archaic form of social media and may get the least amount of attention, as it is not as easily tracked as it is with the sites that have dedicated mobile interfaces.

So what I am trying to say is, I would be willing to bet that a lot of these knife companies may only have a handful of employees working on consumer complaints, warranty claims, and the like. Cut them some slack and be patient.

My only experience with a knife warranty was for my Buck Rush AO knife. I disassembled it trying to clean it and lost all kinds of parts...springs, screws, etc... I was a few beers into my evening when I attempted this. So I put it all back together as best I could, wrapped it up and shipped it back to BUCK. 2 months later, I got my knife back. Aside from wear marks that I put on the knife, this thing was back to being as good as new. Completely reassembled, sharpened, cleaned, lubricated, etc.. And they didn't charge me a dime. The funny part was, there was ZERO correspondence. I never called, never emailed, never wrote a letter, never posted to their facebook or made a thread on a forum. NOTHING! And they hooked me up on something that I clearly f**ked up.

That is all. Thanks for reading.
UserBanned

Rarely can I say I agree with somthing in every way...my friend I guess it's one of those days and I have never heard anyone complain about Bucks customer service either. your user name makes me smile every time I read it, so thanks

 

[jimh0220]

The problem, imho, is primarily with the consumer. As others have said, the expectations of some folks have become ridiculous. Should you expect a quality, fully functioning product relative to the amount of money spent? Absolutely. If a knife is truly defective, should it be repaired or replaced by the manufacturer within the terms of the warranty? Yep. Do the vast majority of whines and moans about bad service on this site consist of people whining about things that amount to abused knives and outrageous expectations? ABSOLUTELY!
Why would any mod or co. rep need to apologize for badmouthing of their product and service by pathetic whiners with no leg to stand on? Problems do occasionally occur, and I have seen a ton of generosity from mfgrs to remedy the problems quickly. But unreasonable people don't want any apologies or realistic solutions. They want attention accompanied by a healthy dose of non deserved free stuff to 'compensate' them. That is all they care about. Nothing else will do. You cannot make them happy, which is why they act like jackwads.

EVERY knife company I have dealt with for REAL warranty issues have been gracious, apologetic more than have needed to be, and helpful. Period. ALL of them. From Gerber to CRKT to Cold Steel to Benchmade, etc. Of course, I treat them with the courtesy they deserve and am realistic about my expectations of what should be done, which is simply make things as they should be.

 

[Creaky Bones]

I honestly dunno what to say...before I say anything could I have a link to these two threads please? (Not trying to be sarcastic, just want to have all the information)



I agree with what's in bold. The fact that they offers no proof in my opinion is good form, the person in question would have gotten trolled themselves and gained a bad reputation. That being said I wish they would have privately banned that person instead of leaving it be. And yes I'm taking spydercos word for it.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1078239-Spyderco-Warranty-amp-Repair-Customer-Service-Response-from-Spyderco/page2

I could link the thread with Kershaw, but my example was intended as a counterpoint to the excellent job Kabar did, not to bash Kershaw. I think they make a quality product. I just won't buy from them again, but that's my personal choice. If you're really interested I could pm the story and links, but I'd rather not take things off topic and start a big unnecessary argument. There are more than a few brands with fan boys that take every criticism as a personal insult and a reason to start acting like computer tough guys. It's easy to get all tough and nasty at a keyboard, a point UserBanned already brought up.

 

[9blades]

I could link the thread with Kershaw, but my example was intended as a counterpoint to the excellent job Kabar did, not to bash Kershaw. I think they make a quality product. I just won't buy from them again, but that's my personal choice. If you're really interested I could pm the story and links, but I'd rather not take things off topic and start a big unnecessary argument. There are more than a few brands with fan boys that take every criticism as a personal insult and a reason to start acting like computer tough guys. It's easy to get all tough and nasty at a keyboard, a point UserBanned already brought up.

it's fine...let sleeping dogs lie I guess

 

[the kid]

As a Customer Service Manager for a major guitar & drum company in the USA, I see the good, the bad, and the ugly side of consumers. As someone mentioned above, the flood of social media websites (and email) have made the modern consumer impatient, demanding, and many times completely unreasonable. At my company, we have a team of 10 Customer Service reps, 1 Manager (me), and 1 person dedicated to Social Media (Twitter, Facebook, etc...). We recognized the need for someone to be monitoring the plethora of social media outlets at all hours of the day, so the position was born. However, we are among the few, not the many, who understand this. The vast majority of companies who provide a product to consumers do not have a dedicated social media expert. And message boards / forums are probably the most archaic form of social media and may get the least amount of attention, as it is not as easily tracked as it is with the sites that have dedicated mobile interfaces.

My experience is (with other products not knives) if you want to contact costumer service for an exchange or repair you don't use forums. Forums are merely an extra service provided to give information and advice. I think Bladeforums (or maybe the knife business) is an exception; I've seen company spokespersons taking care of customer service issues like exchange and repair.

So what I am trying to say is, I would be willing to bet that a lot of these knife companies may only have a handful of employees working on consumer complaints, warranty claims, and the like. Cut them some slack and be patient.

Then they should hire more people.

I don't care about social media costumer service (for software I do!) I expect my emails to be responded to and more importantly; getting the right answer or action I requested.
My experience is most customer services have trouble reading emails correctly and providing a fitting response with the information you actually requested.
Which means you have to send additional emails.