My thougths on the Commander...

J

Jackal

Joined
Oct 5, 1998
Messages
1,830
I've seen and handled my share of Commanders, and a few of the others, but I've never really given them much thought until tonight. I got my first Commander today, a 2000 blk. plain. Sadly though, it's on it's way to NJ. Anyway, I'm sure these topics have come up many times before, but I have little knowledge of the Emerson line. Here we go:

I love the Commander's shape and size, in fact...I'd like to make it my everyday carry, but their are some things that bother me. What's with the thin liners? (Are they s.s. or ti.?) They seem waaay too thin for how much I value my fingers. Second, Why such a small contact area in the pivot area? Their is a huge gap due to the thick spacers / washers...and with such a small pivot area, theirs a tendancy to have blade play. Why the chisel grind? THe Shaprmaker won't touch this edge...I'd be screwed if it got dull. (What is the blade steel?) I'm not trying to bash the Commander...I love it, but it seems to me that it could use some re-thinking. Are the custom versions built this way? I don't understand the price these command using the materials they do like the "cheap" hardware, and the "not so great" fit and finish. The liners look like they were roughed out with a hacksaw, and finished with a handfull of gravel. It'd be great if Emerson Knives would release a BFC forum knife like this one:

- Satin finish / stonewashed 154CM or S60V / S90V blade. Standard grind...not chisel.

Note: I think this blade beggs to have a hole in it, rather than the thumbdisk...and their aren't many I feel this way about.

- Carbon fiber or canvas / rag micarta scales.

- BEEFY s.s. or ti. liners.

- Skull clip

- Torx T8 screws with Tork T15 pivot screw or even hex. SATIN finish...not black.

- Thicker pivot area.

Just my thoughts...this would be my ideal "dream" knife. What are your feelings?

-AR
 
Jackyl

Good questions all. I'm not the knife designer, so I can't help you with most of them.

As to the liners, in my opinion, they are acceptable. Sure they could be thicker. I classify them in the "Average" Catagory. Look at some other production folders and your lickly to see even thinner. One "Tactical" folder out there scares the hell out of me as it appears the liners are made of tin foil.

There has been much discussion on the Chisel grind. Personally, I like it. Production Commanders are made with a combination "V" grind blade, with a chisel ground edge. Are the customs made this way? Custom Commanders are, yes. ES1-Ms are traditional chisel ground. Picture

Blade stell? 154CM

Pivot area? Again, I have carried and USED Commanders since thier introduction and never had a problem.

Your suggestions:

- Satin finish / stonewashed 154CM or S60V / S90V blade. Standard grind...not chisel.

Interesting. I was thinking about an S90V blade the other day. I understand it's a pain to Satin finish though. I'd like to see a Satin finish, "Grinder finish" or Stonewashed/Matte finish too. You got your wish on the 154CM.

Again, I happen to like the chisel grind. Not an issue for me.

Note: I think this blade beggs to have a hole in it, rather than the thumbdisk...and their aren't many I feel this way about.

Agreed. There was a Spyderco holed proto way back when. EKI does have some diskless Commanders available. They would be great for drilling a hole.

- Carbon fiber or canvas / rag micarta scales

ABSOLUTELY! I'm hoping this is an option offered in the C/P shop. I have a set of Commanders off right now having this done.

- BEEFY s.s. or ti. liners

I could stand to see them go back to the original thickness.

- Skull clip

That is currently an option available from EKI.

- Torx T8 screws with Tork T15 pivot screw or even hex. SATIN finish...not black

Sorry guy, you lost me here. Torx sucks. EKI make the knifes so that the owner can tear them appart to repair of clean them. I've worked on knives with a Leatherman. Where the Hell an I going to get a Torx set in the middle of no where? Maybe . . . MAYBE an Allen headed screw option package for those that want to dress the knives up a tad.

- Thicker pivot area

Already mentioned. Mine works.

John
 
Well, you bring up some interesting thoughts as we have been discussing the 1998 Commander and its' more beefy liners and scales as of late when compared to the 1999 and 2000 manufactured Commanders.

The pivot area observation you have would be a non-issue entirely if the liners and scales went back to the 1998 Formula.

As for Allen or Torx Screws, Dude, this is not the Benchmade Forum. Man, I have several Commanders and a CQC-7 and you know what? I like low tech screws.

You can take one of Ernie's Knives apart with a friggin' Swiss Army Knife [SAK] or a regular MultiTool, you don't have to have the plethora of gadgetry that you need with these other Maker's Knives.

I have owned a few Benchmades in my day, and let's see...if you own three different models released over a span of 4 years, you are going to need about 4 different sized Allen Wrenches and 4 different sizes of Torx to take care of this handful of knives. I prefer the ease of having a simple damned screw doing what a screw does, it holds stuff together, as opposed to me pulling my hair out finding the bit that was in the toolbox where I thought I left it.

I have went that way Brother, and I did not like it much.

The steel is 154CM I believe, American ATS-34. And as far as a Sharpmaker not touching it, Dude...learn how to use the Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker Ceramics free-hand. I have sharpened my Commander with them that way, and I use Spyderco Pro-Filer Ceramics as well.

Some say to use a black magic marker to mark the edge when you learn how to sharpen free hand, use red as most Emersons are Black-Ti.

That way you go slow and you maintain proper angle.

Don't sharpen the back of the knife, just lightly go over the grind with a Ceramic until you feel a slight burr on the other side (non grind side) and strop it off on leather...no big deal, back to being a knife again.

Hey, Carbon Fiber and Micarta is very cool with me! But you know what? As my Dad used to say, "People in hell want ice water too." So, I'm not holding my breath for it and you should not either.
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Hope this helped.

Usual Suspects will Rule the Street.
 
Jackyl: I agree with all of your observations. I like my Commander. The wave is the main selling feature of the knife. However, the handle (scales, liners etc.) all feels too thin, light and fragile. Also I agree that the finish on all of the metal (blade, liners etc) is not great.

The blade wobble is a big pain for me. I have applied teflon tape to the pivot screw which helps hold it in place. I called Emerson complaining that the screw keeps loosening up and they advised to use the teflon tape.

My question is why I should have to apply teflon tape to a $200 knife to help hold it together? Seems absurd to me.

Also trying to keep the blade centered, when closed is a constant battle of adjustments. After using it, the blade easily again begins to rub on the liner when opening and closing. My $50 5" Cold Steel Folder seems sturdier!

Don't get me wrong, I like the Emerson line and I also own a few of their other folders. I just think they are quite overpriced, for the quality.

[This message has been edited by jayharley (edited 01-19-2001).]
 
I know what you guys mean about the screws...it makes sense, I just don't take mine apart all that often, and already have the complete Torx set.
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So what I'm after is a 1998 satin Commander then?

-AR
 
Hello: There is nothing I would like more than to own a commander, but I cannot convince Emmerson to make one in left hand plain edge. Attention emerson, please read this post, I am a potential customer.

Regards,
Doug Smith
 
Doug

Lefty plain edge Commanders have been available in the past. And I would imagine that the next batch of lefty Commanders EKI makes will include plain edged models.

I may know of an Emerson dealer that has one in stock. I'll check for ya'.

John
 
Got my new Commander today; my first Emerson. I bought it for the Wave feature as I already have other folders that I feel would do everything else a folder should do only better.

The knife is OK, with a reasonably even grind (not really that even though) and semi sharp over most of the blade; real sharp at the serrations and not so sharp at all in others. This can be remedied. Tha blade wobbles alittle side-to-side. The pivot bearing surfaces seem really small for a "rough/tough" use knife. The blade, at least for now, sits centered between the liners when closed. The fit and finish overall (with one exception) is fair to middle for folders overall and fair to poor for "higher end" knives. The liners: my, my, my; they are thin, they look cheap and my son's first pinewood derby car had better finish BEFORE WE PUT SANDPAPER TO IT!

I carried the knife in my R/F pocket of 100% cotton jeans half a day today and did nothing with the knife except do the Wave a few times and already the finish on the edges of the clip are showing wear and the pit screw's coating is "not so fresh."

I am going to keep the knife as it's Wave feature performs flawslessly. That was the reason I bought it so I am happy in that regard. I really like the blade shape and think "low tech" screws are just fine for the reason set forth above.

IMHO, it seems as though when you pay the Emerson price for one of these you are PAYING for the Wave feature and, like it or not, you are paying for the Navy SEAL beat'em-up, shoot'em-up, blow'em-up tough knife/tough guy mystique. I feel as though I overpaid for the quality I received but got the Wave, so I'll call it even.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 01-19-2001).]
 
I'm happy with my 99 and 00 Commanders, but the 98 rules...you should take that as Gospel around here...
 
Roger that. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with my 2000 Commander. Being new to Emerson, I have to ask, why did they get away from what is obviously a popular version ('98) ? Was it just a cost consideration, weight, what?
 
Most people wouldn't know a '98 Commander if it bit them. The folks here on the forums have been "Educated".

99% of the public are extremely happy with thier 99/2000 Commanders. Rightfully so.

The second gen Commanders are great knives, the '98s are just awesome.

John
 
Nimrod hit the nail right on the head. I'm just glad we were able to talk about these things without fighting.
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One thing I'd like to know though...what does it mean to be a "Usual Suspect"? Kinda like a name for people who gotta have em', like the Sebenza fans? Just curious.
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-AR
 
Nimrod - I "won" a 2000 Commander on Ebay recently, and I haven't had any problems yet. Fit and finish are excellent. No blade wobble at all, and the finish on the screws is still perfect. My only complaint is I keep getting pocket lint on the damn blade, and in the body of the knife!
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But, seriously, could you have just gotten a bad batch?
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">One thing I'd like to know though...what does it mean to be a "Usual Suspect"? Kinda like a name for people who gotta have em', like the Sebenza fans? Just curious.</font>
Click to expand...

From the Emerson Gallery:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"Usual Suspect" - Term coined by Les Robertson in 01/99. A person that frequents and participates in the Emerson Forum on BF.com. In fact it should be considered synonymous with "Frequent Participant". Custom ownership is not required, just enthusiasm for the products.</font>
Click to expand...

John
 
See2, could be that their QC is not consistent and I just fell into my usual luck. The screws that hold the slabs on are fine, it's the pivot screw that has spotty coating and the edge of the clip has wron through a good portion of the finish. I really don't care about that stuff althoug I am surprised how it faded in only a couple of hours.

What I really care about is the lock-up, smoothness of operation, blade play and structural design with a view towards durability and reliability.

From what it sounds like, you definately got a "winner" on eBay. To be fair to EKI, the very nice lady I spoke with on the telephone said that they would waive the $10 fee since the knife was new. I'm going to carry it for a while and if things don't get worse, I'll just live with it. If they do get worse, hopefully EKKI will remember the part about waiving their $10 "fee" for warranty repairs.
 
Had a Commander.....liner lock failed, enough said.

As far as a folding knife goes, I'll only trust these:

Frame lock (Sebenza)
Plunge lock (Speedtech, MT and BM auto etc.)
Balisong
OTF (HALO)

I don't care how "great" a liner lock is or how well it can be made, they are failure prone and dangerous......period. Want to see a pic of the nice scar I have on my hand!

jc
 
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