My Trapping Thread

Lightleak, I appreciate your input, and you have the right to dislike trapping if you wish.

I, however, have a similar right to approve of and practice trapping in an ethical, legal manner. I was trapping on private property, and located the trap sites far from any pets. I was mainly targeting coyote, the population of which has dramatically increased in the past couple years. So, one reason for trapping was management of a species population.

I was also trapping for fun, because it is a skill that has been mostly forgotten in this day and I enjoyed studying and learning it. I strove to trap ethically and did not intend to cause any animals to suffer. An animal has no concept of what a trap is or what a trap is for, so there is no possibility that the coon knew that someone was going to come along and shoot it and the subsequent mental anguish you described could not have occurred.

As evidenced in the above pictures, when I arrived, the coon was not struggling against the trap, did not react fearfully or aggressively at my presence, and did not show any signs of being in pain. Unfortunately, there was some injury to the trapped paw. It is likely due to chewing on the trapped foot, and I will look into preventing such injury from occurring in the future. The bones were not broken, however, and all the toes were intact. I think if I had released the coon, it would have recovered from the injuries to its toes.

Trapping, as all activities in life, involves some risk, and those who practice it do their best to minimize that risk.

Grafton, thanks for your reasoned and civil responses in my absence.
 
Liam Ryan said:
I have the same sportsman 999 .22, it's a fine gun but the one and only time I had it to the range the rear site kept working loose. I had to look for it in the dirt about 3 times, major design flaw for sure and extremely prevalent from what I have read, a real head scratcher.
Did you just loc tite yours?
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I actually don't have a lot of experience with it yet. It's sort of a family gun that my dad and uncle have only used for shooting blanks when training bird dogs or horses. I got it from my uncle, cleaned it up, and sighted it in. I haven't had any issues with the rear sight.
 
I took the hide to the fur buyer yesterday and didn't get a very good price for it. The fur still had some red color in it, which devalues the hide. As I understand it, the fur changes to a greyer color as the temperature gets colder. Our winter was not particularly cold this year.

My coon hunting buddy met me at the fur buyer's and had 11 coon hides to sell. His coons came from farther north where it has been colder and he received a pretty good price for his.

I would like to learn to flesh and dry the hides in the future.
 
Chris Pierce said:
What price did you get? If you don't mind telling. Enough for a new knife?
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:D Five dollars. I suppose that would buy a knife of some kind. :D

The top quality, large hides brought 25, and then prices went down from there depending on size and quality down to the off color ones like mine at 5.
 
SaturatedShadow said:
Lightleak, I appreciate your input, and you have the right to dislike trapping if you wish.
I, however, have a similar right to approve of and practice trapping in an ethical, legal manner.
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-> Hello SaturatedShadow, of course you have the right to do so. I just think the discussion was lacking a different point of view, so that the people reading know there are actually people, states and whole countries in the world who disapprove trapping because they think it is not an ethical thing to do, and they have their reasons as well.

SaturatedShadow said:
An animal has no concept of what a trap is or what a trap is for, so there is no possibility that the coon knew that someone was going to come along and shoot it(...)
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-> I think you are right here, yes.

SaturatedShadow said:
(...)and the subsequent mental anguish you described could not have occurred.
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-> This is very debatable and I think you are wrong. Nobody with a bit of reason will question the fact that animals do feel pain, fear and shock.

SaturatedShadow said:
Unfortunately, there was some injury to the trapped paw. It is likely due to chewing on the trapped foot, and I will look into preventing such injury from occurring in the future.
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If all the energy I have put into defending my point of view alone against many others just lead you to change your way of trapping, so that the animals will not eat/chew their own extremities, it was worth it. Maybe someone else reading will also think about reducing that risk.

I have also read there are padded foothold traps that reduce the risk of breaking the bones or skin. Maybe people could use those more often?
 
Things are not always as they first appear. I believe some states mandate the use of padded jaw traps. More because or perception than damage reduction. The padded jaw traps are not the saving grace that everyone thought they should be. Many people like the idea of them even though it does not necessarily reduce foot damage. Perhaps you could say in some cases it reduces the visibility of foot damage. One of the problems with padded jaws in very cold weather is that the pads contribute to the loss of circulation (a lot of trapping goes on in very cold weather). This is where things get interesting in that a small cut to the foot from an unpadded jaw may be perceived as visible damage but it is the kind of injury that would heal quickly with no long term effect. A frozen foot looks fine but would be a long term injury if you were looking to release the animal. Padded jaw traps are more expensive and require more maintenance. They will do nothing for the raccoon chewing issue and may increase the problem. The J.C. Conners Jake trap is an excellent coyote trap and it has padded jaws. I guess what I am trying to say is that these things are not as simple as they seem. Trying new things on your trapline is good and you will have to figure out what works best for you over time.

Even with all the information given to you..........Again, if you are going to talk about "animals" chewing their feet, you need to replace the word animal with "raccoon" or else you are just perpetuating a myth and an agenda. coyote, fox etc...do not chew their feet.

Your posts are a perfect example of what happens when people with no trapping experience get into these debates. They have nothing to back their claims other than emotion and something they read off a anti trapping website. When these same people make it into a decision level position that can effect policy it often results in a disaster.....

I could care less if you ever trap or change your mind about trapping but at least get your facts straight.
 
grafton said:
Things are not always as they first appear. I believe some states mandate the use of padded jaw traps. More because or perception than damage reduction. The padded jaw traps are not the saving grace that everyone thought they should be. Many people like the idea of them even though it does not necessarily reduce foot damage. Perhaps you could say in some cases it reduces the visibility of foot damage. One of the problems with padded jaws in very cold weather is that the pads contribute to the loss of circulation (a lot of trapping goes on in very cold weather). This is where things get interesting in that a small cut to the foot from an unpadded jaw may be perceived as visible damage but it is the kind of injury that would heal quickly with no long term effect. A frozen foot looks fine but would be a long term injury if you were looking to release the animal. Padded jaw traps are more expensive and require more maintenance. They will do nothing for the raccoon chewing issue and may increase the problem. The J.C. Conners Jake trap is an excellent coyote trap and it has padded jaws. I guess what I am trying to say is that these things are not as simple as they seem. Trying new things on your trapline is good and you will have to figure out what works best for you over time.

Even with all the information given to you..........Again, if you are going to talk about "animals" chewing their feet, you need to replace the word animal with "raccoon" or else you are just perpetuating a myth and an agenda. coyote, fox etc...do not chew their feet.

Your posts are a perfect example of what happens when people with no trapping experience get into these debates. They have nothing to back their claims other than emotion and something they read off a anti trapping website. When these same people make it into a decision level position that can effect policy it often results in a disaster.....

I could care less if you ever trap or change your mind about trapping but at least get your facts straight.
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I don't know if you realize it but you are the only person here getting really personal, extremely emotional and insulting. I get along fine with all the others, including the starter of the thread. I see you need to have the last word on everything. Go on, you're the greatest and wisest of us all! :thumbup:
 
lightleak said:
I don't know if you realize it but you are the only person here getting really personal, extremely emotional and insulting. I get along fine with all the others, including the starter of the thread. I see you need to have the last word on everything. Go on, you're the greatest and wisest of us all! :thumbup:
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I didn't read graftons post as personal or insulting. But I do see the part that I bolded in your post as rude, personal and insulting.
 
Chris Pierce said:
I didn't read graftons post as personal or insulting. But I do see the part that I bolded in your post as rude, personal and insulting.
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Post #51 had some similar connotations as what you bolded. Both should just stop and so should we.

Trapping may have some ethical considerations. I think overcoming that is good and requires discussion. We should keep our heads while doing so.
 
Please take a deep breath and read the following with a pleasant, soothing tone.

That post was not meant to be insulting, I am sorry you took it that way. I will not argue ethics with you as that is a very personal thing. I can not convince you that legally trapping a wild animal and killing it is just like a walk through the woods, or making a fuzz stick, or eating a sandwich...a completely neutral act. You will not convince me that I should not be able to sleep at night for what I do. Each to their own.

See, we can get along just fine.

I do not need the last word but If no one else does, I will politely address you for using the wrong terminolgy, perpetuating myth, or recommending things that you have read about but have no experience with.

Cheers. ;)
 
My Father traps up here in Canada and I often help him. We trap Beaver and Muskrat in the winter and then Fisher when that Is open but I don't remember when it is. Sorry about the links and no picks I still dont quite understand how to post pictures.

But this is what we use mostly. We just put it outside a lodge with two sticks through the rings and run it down into the water and check it every day or so. Works out pretty good, Im pretty sure its the standard beaver trap setup.
http://www.dunnsfishfarm.com/images_products/conibear_beaver_trap_otter_296sma.jpg


For Fisher we use the same trap but set it up in a box like this
http://www.trapper.ca/setmarten1.gif

It works well because if you put it high in a tree or on a elevated area bears cant get into it so you get mostly fishers every once and a while you might end up with a Coon. But for the most part its Fishers.
 
I just don't see the need for a derogatory tone if you explain something.
When I was disturbed by the pictures of the raccoon in the trap I used the word snare. You replied:

“What snared raccoon are you speaking of? I see a raccoon in a foothold trap. A foothold trap is not a snare.“

In my eyes, this was simply chicanery, and I didn't really understand why you wouldn't explain it in a friendly way. I think the main purpose of a forum is to learn something from each other. I have learned a lot here, also in this thread. Everybody else has explained things with a friendly tone and the goal to educate, most of your replies seemed to me as nitpicking because you are afraid of the “animal rights activist“ which I am not.

“You are an animals rights activist and there is no way to reason with someone with such an extreme viewpoint. I will not waste my time with it. It is a shame that someone who is just starting out in a great outdoors activity has had his thread spiral into this.“ (post # 51)

-> I think we have a different understanding of the concept of discussion. In my eyes, it isn't a “shame“ when there are more points of view to a discussion than just your own. Even if you love trapping, others think it is cruel. It is a challenge to accept that, but this challenge is part of the discussion.

“I could care less if you ever trap or change your mind about trapping but at least get your facts straight.“ (post #67)

-> In my post you replied to I had a very calm and indeed soothing tone and was just saying it is good that the issue of the chewed foot has been realized at all. And there you, telling me:

“Again, if you are going to talk about "animals" chewing their feet, you need to replace the word animal with "raccoon" or else you are just perpetuating a myth and an agenda.“

I was using “animals“ as an umbrella term, I didn't know no other animal had ever mutilated itself while being caught in a trap. And I am sure even you, although you know a lot about trapping and shooting animals, cannot guarantee this. The thing is, it was not the important part of my statement. I was just saying it is good people reading this thread are aware that they can reduce the risk of a raccoon chewing on his paws while being caught in a trap. That is what I mean with nitpicking. Once more I will state that I don't have an agenda and I am not an animal rights activist spreading myths. I just saw a picture that made me concerned. And since nobody else seemed to be concerned, I raised my concerns. I also promise, I am not a raccoon or in any way related to raccoons!

Also I don't want to tell anybody what to do, as it has been said in this thread as well. We are not making laws here, I am a single person looking at pictures and information and making up my mind. This is just a discussion with both sides stating their points of view. If we want to learn from anything, we have to be calm and open minded and not fearful and derogatory. Even more so if there is only one person with a different point of view / concerns / ideas.

Let's just talk to each other in a respectful manner and with a good will towards life in general, if I may say so.

Best regards.
 
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Lightleak, you have expressed your views, though they differ from the majority of the posters in this thread, and you have done so with clear, logical thoughts and a civil tone. For that I commend you.

Grafton, you have presented your replies with an obvious knowledge of the subject matter and have brought up pertinent facts and dispelled myths. Thank you.

You have both contributed greatly to the discussion. Let's not turn it into an argument at this point.
 
Yes, enough of the ethics of trapping, it has completely derailed an excellent thread, and just very well may get it locked!
 
Man..great job on the instructions, hope I remember if I ever shoot another..would you have a recommendation on how best to treat the hides?

I'm with you on how the old timers scorn a big blade..Grandpa never carried anything bigger than a 3 inch blade that I'm aware of, and handled all his farm/hunting/fishing needs very well with one exception; when he was cutting up cattle, or hogs, he would use a larger knife for those, but it was only after they had been skinned, and chilled..basically meathouse work for large game.
 
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Barrabas said:
Man..great job on the instructions, hope I remember if I ever shoot another..would you have a recommendation on how best to treat the hides?
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Thanks. I actually can't give much advice on hide preservation. So far, I've only dealt with green hides (just as it comes off the animal).

Next season, I would like to try fleshing and drying the hides, which will allow you to get a few more dollars for the hide when it sells.

Barrabas said:
I'm with you on how the old timers scorn a big blade..Grandpa never carried anything bigger than a 3 inch blade that I'm aware of, and handled all his farm/hunting/fishing needs very well with one exception; when he was cutting up cattle, or hogs, he would use a larger knife for those, but it was only after they had been skinned, and chilled..basically meathouse work for large game.
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Yeah, sounds similar to a lot of other accounts I've heard of the older generations. Small knife for everything but butchering.
 
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