My warning for deal spotting ?????

Bimmer1

Bimmer1

Joined
Sep 30, 2000
Messages
2,481
I have been a long time member here with no warnings or issues.

I placed this post on the Emerson forum because I thought it would be nice for guys and gals to see the opportunity to purchase one of the once a year rare Emerson Christmas knives that were available.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698363

If you don't know about them then you might miss out.

I do not work for Emerson and have never even met any members of the Emerson family.

I don't know how what I did can be called "deal spotting". I like this definition of the word "deal"----A sale favorable especially to the buyer; a bargain.

Our own guidelines concerning "deal spotting" reads as follows---"Yes, we know you found a great price on the Ninja Disembowel 4000 at SuperPriceMART. We don't care. We'd prefer you support the dealers who support BladeForums.com.

As such, we don't allow deal spotting because otherwise the forums would be a quagmire of "deals" (real or imagined) posted everywhere, or unscrupulous people posting "deals" for non paying dealers. So don't do it."

The Emerson Christmas knives are sold at retail pricing and higher. Your own example says "something you found at a great price" cannot be listed.

How can posting something sold at retail price or higher be considered "revealing something I found at a great price"? And we are to support those who support Bladeforums.com........ doesn't Emerson Knives support Bladeforums.com by paying for a forum?
 
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Your infraction reads, "Auction / Deal / Bargain Spotting."

There are many definitions for the word "deal." To me, the operative word is "spotting." From your post (i.e., "I'm surprised these have not completely sold out, special versions, limited customs, few left, I'm surprised the green handled stonewash karambits are still around and that one remaining tan handled Commander is a winner!"), it looks like you were "spotting."

It's only a "warning" and it expires. Live and learn.
 
At any given time, there are hundreds of "special" knives being offered all over the Internet. People who are interested can use any of the excellent search engines to find them.

Bf.c is a knife discussion site, not a knife announcement site.

We do permit links to sales and auctions -- even currently-ongoing sales and auctions -- if A) the poster is not the seller or shilling for the seller, and B) the poster's purpose in pointing out the sale or auction is to discuss the knife or its sale. "Look, look, brand Z is offering a 'special' knife!" is not discussion.
 
The only problem I see is it was in the Emerson forum, and it was a link to the Emerson direct site, not a 2nd party. I'm not sure how you can deal spot for the manufacturer's product from the manufacturer's forum. (not sure if I worded that right)
 
Gollnick said:
We do permit links to sales and auctions -- even currently-ongoing sales and auctions -- if A) the poster is not the seller or shilling for the seller, and B) the poster's purpose in pointing out the sale or auction is to discuss the knife or its sale. "Look, look, brand Z is offering a 'special' knife!" is not discussion.
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Odd...

I once was accused of deal spotting and got an informal warning just for mentioning REI's scratch & dent sales, this in the context of discussing a deal I got on a seemingly unused, returned tent ($350 tent for $30). Most of my focus was on the tent, not the sales themselves. I simply mentioned that folks might want to check their local stores and see if they could take advantage. Again, these sales are on used/returned items. Every sale is different and no two stores are going to have the same items, or even have the sales at the same times.

The whole thing was not a big deal, but I did seek clarification, and I was told I brushed the line because REI is not a sponsor of BFC. Okay... fine. Lesson learned. But in this case, doesn't Emerson support BFC by having a subforum here?
 
Emerson has his own forum here and he can advertise his own deals if he wishes. He doesn't need you to do it for him.
 
GigOne said:
Your infraction reads, "Auction / Deal / Bargain Spotting."

There are many definitions for the word "deal." To me, the operative word is "spotting." From your post (i.e., "I'm surprised these have not completely sold out, special versions, limited customs, few left, I'm surprised the green handled stonewash karambits are still around and that one remaining tan handled Commander is a winner!"), it looks like you were "spotting."

It's only a "warning" and it expires. Live and learn.
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Yes my infraction reads "Auction/Deal/Bargain Spotting"

It wasn't an auction link.......it wasn't a "deal" when it comes to pricing.......and it wasn't a bargain when it comes to the pricing." Since the word "spotting" goes hand in hand with those three words in our rules it doesn't truly appear that I broke any rules.

I guess the word "subjective" would apply here better then the words "auction, deal, bargain" and since "spotting" goes along with those three words I can't make it apply either.

But.....I don't make the rules and I don't have to interpret them much like the laws of this country and those who interpret them one way in one situation and a completely different way in another.
 
Ken C. said:
Emerson has his own forum here and he can advertise his own deals if he wishes. He doesn't need you to do it for him.
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You are correct sir........but my post wasn't about any need from the Emersons it was more about a "need" on behalf of Emerson knife enthusiasts to have the opportunity to pick up something rare.

Yes search engines might tell someone that the Emerson Christmas knives are available but if you do a search in January for them then they are all sold out. Doing a search (as one person posted above) is all about timing. If you don't know something special exists it is doubtful that you will never think about doing a search.

Besides......even if you are aware of such an event.....sometimes you simply forget about it and need reminding.

This was about brotherhood and being thoughtful to the fact that we have members here who would love to have something a little different and special from one of their favorite manufacturers. Getting slapped on the wrist for "helping" someone fill a spot in their collection is the difficult thing to understand.

I honestly didn't think anything about it being wrong or fitting the true definition of our policy on this matter since it was on the Emerson forum. If we cannot discuss the day to day activities of Emerson knives then what good is the Emerson forum?

Sorry for the the inappropriate post.
 
I'm not going to get into an argument over this. You got dinged for deal spotting. You can try to justify your actions as much as you like but the fact remains that it isn't allowed by forum policy.
 
Ken C. said:
I'm not going to get into an argument over this. You got dinged for deal spotting. You can try to justify your actions as much as you like but the fact remains that it isn't allowed by forum policy.
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OK......thank you for addressing my questions.
 
FIDO

There are many posts in many of the individual forums that are "deal-auction-bargain spotting" that go unchallenged. I guess that they get warned when they get noticed? Or not.
 
Daniel said:
FIDO

There are many posts in many of the individual forums that are "deal-auction-bargain spotting" that go unchallenged. I guess that they get warned when they get noticed? Or not.
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the moderators do not read every post. in the event a mod has not seen a post, it would require one of us to report it.

if it is an ebay (or similar) auction, i would feel inclined to report the post. if it is a link like the emerson one, i would not.

like many rules and regulations, there is some interpretation involved, and in this case the mod decided it was a violation. in choosing to become a member here, the onus is on us to know and abide by the rules as best we can. when there is a possible discrepency, we bring it here or communicate privately.

and we should never try and justify our actions through those of another, though i see your point.
 
Typically the deal spotting rule is to prevent people from adverstising sites all over bfc. We're not a coupons / auction / free classifieds / whatever site.

That said, was the thread originally in the Emerson forum? Mentioning Emerson Knives for sale on the Emerson Knives website? Pinging for that seems a bit odd.
 
Spark said:
Typically the deal spotting rule is to prevent people from adverstising sites all over bfc. We're not a coupons / auction / free classifieds / whatever site.

That said, was the thread originally in the Emerson forum? Mentioning Emerson Knives for sale on the Emerson Knives website? Pinging for that seems a bit odd.
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This is the thread I started in the Emerson forum and the thread where I left a direct link to the Emerson Knives website about their special edition Christmas knives they have available once a year. I was given a warning for "deal spotting" from this thread. And......it still makes no sense but it was obvious to me that the moderators were going to stick together with the decision that had been made so there was no point in me continuing to "prove" my point.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698363


And as others have pointed out......this thread appears to be "deal spotting" for countycomm.com and it was obvious from post #27 that a moderator had no problem with it. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659568


I absolutely understand that Bladeforums and other forums have certain dealers that are paying members and we should support them. I believed since Emerson had their own forum that they must contribute in some way to Bladeforums so posting a link from their very own forum to their very own website seemed like a logical and non-rule breaking action.

If knifecenter.com or newgraham.com had their own forum here could we not post a direct link saying......."Wow guys and gals check this out! There are special edition Christmas knives being offered at knifecenter.com or newgraham.com......get them while they last!" Posting a direct link from an Emerson forum to Emerson knives.com about special edition knives that are "only available" through Emerson isn't taking away from any Bladeforums dealer which doesn't break any rules and doesn't cause the harm that the rules on "deal spotting" are trying to prevent in the first place.
 
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Daniel said:
FIDO

There are many posts in many of the individual forums that are "deal-auction-bargain spotting" that go unchallenged. I guess that they get warned when they get noticed? Or not.
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It is a huge forum and not every violation gets acted upon. Thats like complaining that you got a speeding ticket for going 100MPH because your neighbor bragged to the world that the day before he drove 110MPH and did not get dinged.

Maybe had you worded things differently the perception might have been different for the Mod who dinged you. Maybe if it read "It is a nice knife, the S30V blade is 3.5 inches long and it carries well blah, blah, blah. Get a minute go to www.blahblahblah.com and take a look at these limited edition knives" it might have made it unnoticed, I don't know.

Seems you have Mr. Sparks ear and if you take this appeal "non-public" with Kevin and the Mod involved there might be some kind of resolution.

It truly is difficult being a Moderator on BFC, I do not envy any of them.
 
wolfmann601 said:
It is a huge forum and not every violation gets acted upon. Thats like complaining that you got a speeding ticket for going 100MPH because your neighbor bragged to the world that the day before he drove 110MPH and did not get dinged.

Maybe had you worded things differently the perception might have been different for the Mod who dinged you. Maybe if it read "It is a nice knife, the S30V blade is 3.5 inches long and it carries well blah, blah, blah. Get a minute go to www.blahblahblah.com and take a look at these limited edition knives" it might have made it unnoticed, I don't know.

Seems you have Mr. Sparks ear and if you take this appeal "non-public" with Kevin and the Mod involved there might be some kind of resolution.

It truly is difficult being a Moderator on BFC, I do not envy any of them.
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I don't think it should matter how I said it. Sensational or not......it's not taking away from any dealer that pays to be a dealer here because they cannot sell the exclusive Emerson Christmas knives on their site. I have been a member here for over 9 years and have never been given a warning for anything. This is a forum. I understand the role of the moderators. We appreciate them and understand this is a large forum where many, many things are said and done. We are trying to save space...we are trying to be civil.....we are trying to take care of our own (or so I thought)....we are trying to rid this place of thieves and spammers. The moderators have to constantly be on the look-out for such things to make this a great experience for all of us.
I would not have even brought this here (in public) but the moderator who gave me the warning wasn't budging on his opinion and he told me I could bring my concerns here. It's not going to change my life and the world doesn't stop over this. I have heard many, many current members and former members here complain about some of the insignificant things they have been called out for and sometimes we have to stop and ask....WHY? I absolutely know how to read the rules.....I'm not an idiot. Under the definition and examples given for "deal spotting" and given the fact that Emerson Knives has their very own forum here I have to sit and scratch my head and wonder why in the world a warning for deal spotting was even given to me. If I did something wrong or something that violates this community then I will take responsibility for it but being given a warning for "deal spotting" for what I posted takes away from my forum experience and someone who has enjoyed almost a decade of trouble free usage out here.
 
I must admit I am scratching my head over this one too. Are you telling me if I see a great deal on Spyderco knives that I can't tell some other Spyderco nuts in the Spyderco forum about it even though both myself and Spyderco support these forums? Not to stir the pot or point fingers but this just seems a bit off kilter to me. I can understand how you don't want people being supported that don't support the forums but the guys that do support the forums should be okay for this. I mean if its a free loader not paying for membership it should be a ding just like selling in the forums without a paid membership is. Paying members should be exempt from infraction for this ruling for supporting web sites, particularly when posted in the forum responsible for the deal. Then if they deal spot for a supporting member in a wrong forum the ding would be for posting in the wrong forum but thats the worst case scenario here. What I see is a paid member getting dinged needlessly here. Isn't it deal spotting when a dealer announces specials somewhere on the forums? Whats the difference there really? They both pay to sell, they should be able to announce supporting web site deals as well. My opinion for what it's worth. I can think of at least two other occasions in recent weeks where someone mentioned the Cold Steel Christmas flyers in threads and none of them were infracted. Am I missing something?

STR
 
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STR said:
I must admit I am scratching my head over this one too. Are you telling me if I see a great deal on Spyderco knives that I can't tell some other Spyderco nuts in the Spyderco forum about it even though both myself and Spyderco support these forums?
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I recall a similar question a long while back, and the impression I got is... no, you can't. On the other hand, a key reason I'm even here is that some 9+ years ago I saw deals mentioned in the Spyderco forum, and it wasn't long before I was hooked on the knives.

Moderation on this one seems uneven sometimes, BUT I would much rather it be uneven than Draconian. I'd hate to think we could never pass along availability information on quality products within the community. That said, I'm much more hesitant now to mention bargains. I'll usually pass them along via PM, but I don't jump to post them on BFC.

To add:

Bimmer1 said:
I placed this post on the Emerson forum because I thought it would be nice for guys and gals to see the opportunity to purchase one of the once a year rare Emerson Christmas knives that were available.
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There's another subforum here that really looks forward to certain knives being offered in Christmas tins. There are almost always quite a few posts about the matter this time of year. It's a part of the community and something that helps bond those folks together.

.
 
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Guyon said:
There's another subforum here that really looks forward to certain knives being offered in Christmas tins. There are almost always quite a few posts about the matter this time of year. It's a part of the community and something that helps bond those folks together.

.
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You wouldn't be talking about those that are usually mentioned to include the place of sale (*insert gigantic, multi-national, universally hated yet surprisingly profitable discount store here);):foot::p

I'm also kind of surprised that it would be wrong to mention, in the Emerson forum, a sale of Emerson knives on the Emerson web-site:p But I could see how a mod would see the post under "New Posts", and not notice the forum it was in.
 
eh, it's a warning so as far as I'm concerned, it's not that big of a deal.
 
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