Mystery Knife Guessing Game.

[Pàdruig]

I thought it might be fun to do another knife guessing game.

I'm going to put up pictures of two knives, and you guys and gals can try to identify them.

With the depth of knowledge here on the Porch, I wouldn't be surprised if someone correctly identifies the purpose of both of them, right quick.

But for those of us who may not know straight away what they are, let's play a little Knife Detective, and get those deductive muscles working!

The first one is a well made tool, blade stamp: J Unley/Sheffield/Eng.

At first glance, the blade may appear broken off, but on closer examination you can see it's definitely made that way. There is a chisel ground edge on the end of the blade.

The handle looks like it's ebony or some other high quality, durable timber.

(I actually don't know what this knife is for, either.)



In hand shot, for scale.


And a close up of the blade stamp.

My best guess is that it is an antique chamfering/edge setting tool for leather work. You see a lot of uniquely designed leather working cutting tools and as you mentioned getting it with a lot of cordwainer/cobbler tools, this seems the most likely. Including a pic of another example with some structural similarities.

 

[Zemapeli]

Way interesting thread all,,, I enjoyed this. Interesting :thumbup::thumbup: Kudos.

 

[5K Qs]

Glad you're enjoying it GT. Hey, sometimes 'fresh eyes' are the ones best able to 'reverse engineer' the concept and intent of a mystery tool. And you surely have no shortage of deductive logic, my friend. :thumbup:

Thanks for the kind words, Chin. Deduction requires some hypotheses from which to start a chain of inference, and that's where my inexperience with knifely matters puts me at a disadvantage. But that's why I like threads like this: I can (at least temporarily ) file away some facts that might serve me well in the future! :thumbup:

- GT

 

[Cambertree]

Well, that didn't take long.
Thanks for all the answers and everyone seemed to be on the right path, but Arathol gave the correct answer to all three functions (except the "cap lifter" possibility). the "hook" was strictly meant for extracting stuck shells in a gun barrel. I had thought that the "hole" in the blade would the trickier bit to know as pin fire cartridges were not very common in the United States. Enclosed is a pin fire shell, and the hole in the blade tool was meant to go over the pin and pull it from a gun barrel after firing.
I guess I'm going to have to dig deeper to stay ahead of this group...

Wow, Arathol you're on fire!

r8shell, you're right up there as well!

I've been pondering on that J. A. Henckels since Herder put it up. Nice work!

Well, if you have another one lined up for us Herder, go ahead.

When you feel you've had enough, my friend, we can open it up for another member to contribute the next Mystery Knife or Edged Tool. Or feel free to nominate someone, if you like. But I'm sure you have some great and unusual candidates in your collection and catalogues, so I'm looking forward to what you next have in store for us.

 

[Cambertree]

I know the conversation is moving on from that first knife, but I really think it is fun to wonder about.

I know it is a little silly sounding, but I wasnt to suggest that it is a butter shaping knife. Shaping butter used to be a much more common thing, and the shape of that tool where it meets the handle reminds me a lot of old Sheffield butter knives, but it also looks like a cheese knife. Plus, the irregularities of the shape remind me of a cross between the painter's five-blade and clay-working tools:

There is obviously probably not a way to confirm whether this would be a butter shaping tool, but butter shaping could certainly call for a fairly stout tool, particularly if the butter were cold. And it seems like an explanation for why you would want such a complicated profile on a single tool. If you are shaping something repetitive daily it would probably be handy to have a single tool for the job, rather than a set of molding tools.

This is all just based on my gut response to the appearance of the knife, but I wanted to share.

Edited to Add: Just a fun link to an article on Butter Sculpture

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and that article Abbydaddy.

It was interesting to see the photo of the sculptor Caroline Brooks with one of her tools.

Yes, I can definitely imagine Knife No. 1 being used for one of those purposes you've speculated it might be for.

We have a few things to consider it seems, that we haven't quite nailed yet.

- If it is a clay/butter/putty/painters knife, what is the exact purpose and application of the blade shape.

- Yes, it may have been reshaped or reground, but from examining it more closely, I'm still going to stick with the theory that it's shaped exactly as the original toolmaker intended.

- The protrusion at the bottom end of the blade and the acute bevel or ground edge, still haven't really been explained.

Which brings me to Pàdruig's post...

 

[Cambertree]

My best guess is that it is an antique chamfering/edge setting tool for leather work. You see a lot of uniquely designed leather working cutting tools and as you mentioned getting it with a lot of cordwainer/cobbler tools, this seems the most likely. Including a pic of another example with some structural similarities.

Pàdruig, that's a great comparison example you found!

And that's the first guess that puts that odd protrusion on the blade and the particular edge bevelling into context. Notice how the quite acute bevel on that leatherworkers knife is about the same angle as our mystery Knife No. 1.



You wouldn't be able to describe to us how that tool shape is actually used in leather edge setting, would you?

 

[Cambertree]

As a matter of fact, I came across this, from 1945-

Also, I had missed the context of the makers name and details in this ad Arathol previously posted.

Sorry, Arathol, my tunnel vision just zeroed in on the tool, and I only just noticed the rest.

In the light of that find, yes, I think the bladestamp actually reads:

J. Oxley
Sheffield
Eng

 

[Arathol]

And that's the first guess that puts that odd protrusion on the blade and the particular edge bevelling into context. Notice how the quite acute bevel on that leatherworkers knife is about the same angle as our mystery Knife No. 1.

Any other pictures of that tool? Is the blade flat? Generally, edging and detailing tools are v shaped, and this one appears to be also. Is that protruding edge actually the lower part of the v seen edge on?
If its flat it could be a channel knife, used for making certain types of welts in shoe construction. The original piece in question is far to large for that.

 

[Cambertree]

Any other pictures of that tool? Is the blade flat? Generally, edging and detailing tools are v shaped, and this one appears to be also. Is that protruding edge actually the lower part of the v seen edge on?
If its flat it could be a channel knife, used for making certain types of welts in shoe construction. The original piece in question is far to large for that.

Yes, the blade is flat like a putty knife, maybe a bit thicker. Sorry, I've posted all the pictures I have of the knife. That acute edge bevel, like on Pàdruig's leatherworkers knife extends from the inside of the 'tooth' all around the front edges. The sides have no sharpened or bevelled edge on them IIRC.

 

[Arathol]

Yes, the blade is flat like a putty knife, maybe a bit thicker. Sorry, I've posted all the pictures I have of the knife. That acute edge bevel, like on Pàdruig's leatherworkers knife extends from the inside of the 'tooth' all around the front edges. The sides have no sharpened or bevelled edge on them IIRC.

Actually I was asking about the leatherworking tool posted above....

 

[Arathol]

Yes, the blade is flat like a putty knife, maybe a bit thicker. Sorry, I've posted all the pictures I have of the knife. That acute edge bevel, like on Pàdruig's leatherworkers knife extends from the inside of the 'tooth' all around the front edges. The sides have no sharpened or bevelled edge on them IIRC.

In all reality, I think that it is not more than just that, a putty knife re purposed for some obscure reason. The construction and the nature of the manufacturers business gives even more reason to go in that direction.

 

[Cambertree]

Actually I was asking about the leatherworking tool posted above....

Oops, sorry!

 

[Cambertree]

In all reality, I think that it is not more than just that, a putty knife re purposed for some obscure reason. The construction and the nature of the manufacturers business gives even more reason to go in that direction.

Yes, could be. Although the Artisan Knives they advertise probably also include all sorts of now obscure tools.

I emailed the Australian Hand Tool Preservation society, so it will be interesting to see if they get back to me with any ideas...