Mythology Question - I need help

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

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Oct 9, 2003
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I have been putting together a theory about the origin of the Tengu, a mythological half-crow half-human creature often associated with the Ninja in japanese art and literature.
In China they were mountain goblins called Tien Chiu

Uncle Bill, could you tell me more about the Garuda?
They were half-human, half-bird, werent they ?

I think this might be the missing link in the tengu mystery...

Garuda:
garuda.jpg


Karasu Tengu:
pic2_copy_2.jpg
 
It seems like most of the cultures and hill tribes throughout the Orient have numerous mythical creatures, many associated with Hinduism. Here are a few of the common ones I've run across:

Chinthe, a symbolic guardian of Burmese temples, a mythical beast, half lion, half-flying griffin. (Used as the insignia for the WWII Chindits).


Hanuman, the Hindu monkey god, can be found in Singapore and Indonesia as well as India and Nepal.

Bali also has a winged lion, Singambararaja (or Singa)
 
Garuda is the celestial eagle ,the Lord of all the birds and vehicle of the deity Lord Vishnu of the Hindu Trinity.
Yaj.
 
Here's Singa, the "winged lion", posing with Kris. :cool:
 

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This may be going back too far for you- but a lot of prehistoric cultures had the bird goddess. Part bird, and part woman.
 
Danny,

There's a book from some years ago published by the Kansas City Fine Art Museum which contains an essay on the origin of the tengu, relating them both to their immediate ancestor -- the Chinese tian gou 'heavenly dogs' you mentioned earlier -- as well as to garuda. The title was Japanese Ghosts and Demons: Art of the Supernatural, editor Stephen Addiss.

3721001.gif


My own sense is that tengu have more in common with the garuda of SEAsia than with those directly from India. They seem to have a certain menace about them that tends to be lacking in Hindu garudas.
 
Thank you ruel, that was an excellent help to me.
I got to thinking the Garuda might be the ancestor of the Tengu when I found a statue in a museum here, amongst many other statues in Japan (which are all basically Indian/Nepali/Tibetan) of a Garuda and the name said Tengu.
Almost all religious statues here are from some other culture.
(like everything else) so it can be hard to make time-culture lines.

Often they will have the exact sime statue of a god, but will have no idea who it is or its nature...
 
Hey Danny,

Something else you might want to check out is the Chinese Lei Gong 'lord of thunder'. He's often depicted as having birdman features, including feathered wings, clawed bird feet, and a beak.

china5.jpg


Lei Gong was adopted into Japanese mythology as the thunder god Raiden, though he seems to have lost his bird features in the process.

raiden.jpg


This is of course the same Raiden that was later put into the Mortal Kombat video games, in a fully humanized form.

raiden.jpg
 
The old african natives that have been displaced (stranded) on the Bahama islands have a fglightless bird god, I think called Yer Ho.

Celtic and Scandinavian myths from the pre-1000BCE period include much on shape shifters that could turn into birds, Like the Morrigan (MA Trainer of Cuculain) or Odin (who shape shifted into an eagle on at least one occasion), Freya, who has a feather cloak that when put on changes on into a falcon (Loki borrowed this once), The Harpies of Classical Greece/Rome were half bird, half women (but they are the reverse of garud---bird bodies, human torso/head)

Quetzacoatl, the gum-chewing god of the old Mesoamericans, coulc change into a scintillating bird/dragon beast, but once again, that is shape shifting.

Gosh, my musings on shape shifting are gonna make me start another thread...it's a mental exercise...
 
thats true, I have seen Raijin look like a tengu on occasion.
(I dont know where the "raiden" name came from, over here it is always "raijin". )
In any case, I think we have definitely found a strong link......
 
* I think "Raiden" is simply a holdout of the old Kunreisiki transliteration system, since its [d] sound usually implies lenition (ie. when followed by a vowel it's pronounced like a [j]). In Hepburn, it would correspond to "Raijin."


* Going off on a slight tangent, what do you think of the name of the famous Japanese film monster "Rodan"? Could it possibly be related? As you can see from the poster here, his name in Japanese actually reads "Radon," not "Rodan" -- alot closer to "Raiden"/"Raijin":

rodan.jpg


Been a while since I saw it, but from what I recall Rodan emerged from a mountain; tengu are always described as mountain spirits.

* There was also a lesser known movie about a monster called Gappa which looks very much like a tengu, but whose name is closer to another type of Japanese demon called "kappa":

gappa.jpg


Compare:
kappa-panic.gif
kappa.jpg


These kappa have bird beaks and I wonder if they were confabulated with tengu over time. Supposedly they lived in rivers, as opposed to the tengu's mountains.
 
yeah, kappa are basically turtle-like fairies with a beak.
In real life, a kappa is a person with a very pronounced prognathism.
(weak chin and very bucked teeth.)
It happens over here alot and the poor kids are just tortured over it.

Radon might have come from radiation, a very popular cause of giant monsters here in japan. I asked Takako what Radon meant, and she had no idea.

Raiden could mean "lightning palace"
Jin or shin could mean man/god/heart

you know, Raijin and Fujin almost always appear together.

I have decided that Garuda is 99% probably the grandfather of the Tengu.
I have spent the weekend looking at stuff here and in Ueno and Im almost positive...
Once again, the khukuri-ninja connection is made...
 
Danny quote" I have decided that Garuda is 99% probably the grandfather of the Tengu.
I have spent the weekend looking at stuff here and in Ueno and Im almost positive...
Once again, the khukuri-ninja connection is made..."

Danny , Interesting, you have set out to proove your theory & have decided you have done so ,

That is an act of faith, nothing more.

There probably isnt a primitive race or Earth religion {shamanic/animalistic etc.}that doesnt venerate the Eagle!

Look at the USA coat of arms!
usa.gif


not disimuilar from ...
garuda.gif


Perhaps the USA eagle is Garuda too? Wonder if it came from, India or Japan :D

Not to mention 100 other uses of the eagle in symbolism around the world.

That could have happend independently in many cultures. It is not neccasarily from one geographic source. {imho}


The Eagle is one of those animals that inspires humans & there dreams.

Spiral
 
And let's not forget Raideen, one of the most noble giant robots ever to defend the Earth against hostile foes:

raideen_2.jpg


Note that he converts to a bird mode as well.

--Josh
 
Spiral,
I get the feeling you are trying to lecture me about something.
If I was going on faith, I wouldnt have asked any questions in the first place.

I was really just interested in exploring the historical migration of an imaginary creature, I wasnt really trying to "proove" anything scientifically.

The Tengu is not part eagle, it is part crow.

You will find eagles here, however, on top of trophies.
Japanese trophies are covered with crosses, crowns and eagles.
It doesnt take much work to figure out that mystery.
 
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