Naginata Anyone???

For folks interested in the Naginata, here are some links you might want to check out, if you haven't come across them already.

The first is a guide to some old school (Koryu) Japanese martial systems that either have the Naginata as their primary weapon, or include it as part of their curriculum. There are some nice pictures of demonstrations as well as informative articles. In most (if not all) of these pictures, you’ll see the practice wooden Naginata being used. Surf around this site, some great information here:
http://koryu.com/guide/naginata.html

This second link is to the site of the Southern California Naginata Federation. Their primary emphasis is on Atarashi Naginata, the modern sport version, where they wear Kendo-type armor and wield light split-bamboo bladed wooden Naginatas. They also practice old school Naginata. There should be pictures of old Naginata blades here.
http://members.aol.com/naginata/index.html#Table

Another site:
http://www.naginata.org/

- Sonam
 
I'd be interested. The Naginata's one of those weapons that has always held kind of a special place in my heart. And, I'm a big fan of the do it yourself handle. If you check out Arms and Armor, www.armor.com they have ash poles for $23.
My question would be in regards to the mounting. Would you want it with a tang, or with a socket? The socket would almost certainly easier to mount, while I believe the tanged set up would be more historically accurate, and easier for the kamis to forge.
 
Naginata meant "long sword ( there's other word for long bladed sword)" until 400 years ago. Many warriors took naginata a certain kind of lance. Then pax-Edo dominated all over Japan for 300 years under resembling form of civilian control, when naginata changed its meaning to "sweep sword".
Its ability in combat is formidable, more than a katana albeit it was not to be carried around in practicality and in matter of manners/politeness.
The rason why it is women's weapon, comes from its effectiveness to compensate for mustle, and the fact that it was bound to home like household woman, than its gracefulness or beauty. It's rather a lady's weapon than woman's. She needed enough space to wield it aroung in her house to make any use of techniques she learned.
And a naginata was thought to be a "mean" weapon for a man to learn, for it took "low blow" techniques to foot that very few kenjutsu taught.
Kenjutsu grew up a kind of fair play spirit in it, to be fought in a manner like boxing.

Well, very few people want MA any practicality in those days. In battlefield, bladed weapons had been backup weapons for 1000 years then, of bow and arrows first, taken place by guns and bullets later.

Today you have to invent our own purpose for naginata if you want one. Bottom line is wallhanger and practice.

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Otokohadaremo yumenofunanori.
Shonennohinoakogare shinutokimade wasurezunidaiterumonodayo.
 
Man, I'm learning stuff all over the place today. Thanks for the links & knowledge, fellas. What a crew we have in this cantina!
smile.gif


And DD- thanks for the word on the CS spears. There are some very nice (and pricy) reproduction spears around, but reproduction stuff can be such a mixed bag of wallhangers and solid users that I don't want to risk it. If HI makes one, I know it'll be good, and . . . well, if you're going to buy one, why not buy from Uncle Bill and the kamis? Maybe I'll pick up a CS Assegai to play with until/if the yari gets off the ground.

Thanks, guys.
 
Oops, double post, and a mispelled word. Didn't a newbie a few months ago endure quite a bit of abuse (and Bill admitted he wasn't perfec) for this same action? I remember Rusty deciding to keep the post active and it got over 2 pages of hits!!

[This message has been edited by DeathDancer (edited 04-27-2001).]
 
While I don't usually "boost" other manufacturers and Websites, you could check out Kris Cutlery for their version of a Yari and Naginata blade.

I have a very nice 29 inch KC Katana, which I was very surprised in regard to quality. While it may not be up to some of the "name" makers, it is definitely a high quality item. It goes into the sword case next to my Barry Dawson and Ted Frizzel customs, along with the HI Everest Katana and HI Tarwar. I would venture that the KC Yari and Naginata blades are every bit as good.

Very surprising stuff from the Philippines!!
Try: http://www.kriscutlery.com/

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Watakushi Wa Shinajin Desu
DeathDancer

Movement, transcends movement, transcends thought--Zazen Mantra

[This message has been edited by DeathDancer (edited 04-28-2001).]
 
Thanks, DD. I'll have a look at Kris, but I'll likely wait on a good spear until we know one way or t'other about a HI yari. Like I said, if you're gonna buy, why not buy from HI?
 
Hey guys,
I have been busy with my 12" AK I got yesterday. I think I may have found the perfect carry knife.

Anyway, I will work on an HI Naginata and see what I come up with. I am thinking about pinning the blade because I am worried about the localized stress on a pole if it is socketed. If you pin the blade I think you could spread out the stresses between the shaft and the blade.

The hardest part about this is that if the job of mounting the blade comes to down the customers they will have to figure out how to fit thier own shafts and bolsters.
I know I am up to the task, but this may be discourageing to others.

Another thought:

I want to make the tang long enough so that if you dont want to mount a pole to it you can still mount a couple of slabs as a full tang sword. Remember this is going to be like a wider thicker more swept verstion of the Tarwar, with a long thick tang.

What do ya'll think?
 
I think pinning the tang is the only way to go, too, Dave. A socket is fine for a spear where all the force is inline, but I can't see it working for a chopping polearm unless the collar was really, really long and somehow pinned, too.

I have an old bushaxe that was tang-mounted into a cleft in the shaft, and pinned with fairly unobtrusive panhead nuts and bolts. Inelegant, but effective, and not too unappealing visually. How would you do the pinning?

And I think that bushaxe probably looks a lot like the Lochaber axe Dave K. talked about.


[This message has been edited by DocPat2511 (edited 04-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DocPat2511 (edited 04-29-2001).]
 
If you want to use a naginata for frequent chopping practice, please take care the pin will not crack the shaft.

Another idea to fix the blade in shaft is to heat up a very tight bolster to stretch around the shaft where the blade is already inserted, then cool down the bolster to squeeze the shaft with tang inside. It only strengthen without weakening the construction. Minus point is, disassembling demands LOT of effort.

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Otokohadaremo yumenofunanori.
Shonennohinoakogare shinutokimade wasurezunidaiterumonodayo.
 
Looking through the pictures I've been able to find on the web, I'm still not perfectly sure how they were mounted traditionally, but the best picture I saw showed only a silver habaki, with no pins I could see. Were the traditional naginata forged with a rat-tail tang inserted into the shaft? It sounds like a secure way to do it, but I'd want a pretty long tang for a blade like this, and you'd have to drill very straight, which might be cumbersome with a long shaft.

Also, when I called these "chopping polearms" I think I wasn't quite right. Many of the European polearms look like a variant of a meat cleaver or an axe on a stick. These are much more saber-like and look more suited to slashes and draw-cuts than overhead smashes against heavy armor.
 
My idea originated from traditional TOOL blade rig. More secure but complex way is te combination of mekugi & bolster. If you'd like to see the traditional blade, try this "Otoko Naginata (man's naginata with big blade)" by Kanesada, from 15th century, 53.3cm blade with mokume pattern. It has a mekugi (pin) hole on it, with shirasaya rig, marked with Sanada's six-coin mark. Price: $5,000.

http://www12.freeweb.ne.jp/photo/nihontou/yarinaginata/007.jpg

And, here's how a blade is mounted on shaft. This is yari pix, but naginata is mounted in the same way. This fukuro yari has 12.8cm blade, $1,500 for its shortness.

http://www12.freeweb.ne.jp/photo/nihontou/yarinaginata/008.jpg

Do you see a long bolster wrapping around with mekugi(s) through the shaft?


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Otokohadaremo yumenofunanori.
Shonennohinoakogare shinutokimade wasurezunidaiterumonodayo.
 
I see it WrongFriend, and thanks. I guess it doesn't get much better than that- long tang, pin, and long collar. All bases covered. That would definitely take some work to do at home.
 
That is a great idea, but a little too much work for an "average" customer. (I know that might be taken into offense by those with a case of HIKV as I do, but please do not take it the wrong way. There is nothing "average" about most of us HI customers.) I am trying to think of something simple, yet effective. Simplicity is becomeing moer and more of a problem.

The long tang with the collar seems the most secure for what I want, but just too much effort. I am good with my hands around wood, but around metals? I can only sharpen. Heating and cooling I worry about... more things for me to mess up.

Right now I am thinking about a long thick slab sided tang with 4 pin holes in it. The first starting around 2" behind the tsuba, (if the final version has one) or behind where the pole ends and the cutting edge begins. The second pin hole around 6" back behind that. Then the third around 4" behind the second and another about 2" below the third with another inch or so of tang behind the last pin hole. A total tang length of around 15-17".

I figure that it would be easier to use a router to cut a notch into the pole you are using corresponding to the thickness of the tang of the blade you recieve. Partially splitting the pole into 2 pieces would probably be a problem for some people...any Ideas??? Mounting the blade to this configuration would be easier than to drill a very long very sraight hole for a rat tail.

Also a rat tail is effective of some swords and knives (USMC Ka-bar), but I worry if it would break on a pole arm. Just too much stress at the end of a 6-8' pole.

This configuration should also be cool for a 2 handed sword if you dont want a pole arm.

Designs are still in the thought process. Chime in if you have any ideas.
 
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