Name recognition, How much of your buying is based on performance?

Greenberg Woods

Greenberg Woods

Joined
Dec 27, 2013
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Hey Everyone. I have been doing some thinking lately. I have been trying to bring some new species of woods to market, mainly a wide variety of woods from central and south America. I have found despite excellent working properties and beautiful appearance, they have not sold nearly as well as better known woods of similar quality, price and appearance. I have noticed this with a variety of woods i dont think people consider classic knife woods.

And I think it applies to a lot of aspects of knife making. I know the Hitachi steels are good, but do they make a knife so much more sellable because of their quality? or is it because anybody who knows anything about knives knows hitachi steel. In theory, wouldn't something like very clean W-2 "cough cough Don make more steel" preform just as well? And yet the hitachi knife will almost always fetch a higher price.

What do you guys think? How much of this business is based on name recognition "Desert ironwood, Rosewood, Osage" and how much is based on the characteristics and appearances?

Have a good one!
 
It's a very real consideration. People have cognitive biases for the familiar.
 
If you're using exotics from central and south America

Which one will be the next ivory, the one that gets confiscated off knife show tables and the owners fined ?
 
12345678910 said:
If you're using exotics from central and south America

Which one will be the next ivory, the one that gets confiscated off knife show tables and the owners fined ?
Click to expand...

In theory I see your point, but I am not buying rare woods. I am buying the rare burls of very common woods.

The woods i buy are mostly farmed or sustainabily harvested and are currently listed as the least threatened. I simply buy the burls of these trees.
 
I think the knife world is full of name brands and superstition. Names hold power and most times artificially induce the notion of quality and class. Makers gravitate to these steels and woods because most often thy are good quality materials but also becaus it has pull with customers. I love different woods and steels but I also like the classics. With how much little money we actually make on knives it's some times hard to step out of the box and leave our comfort zone behind and try somthing new. The trick is to get it out on a few knives and get it seen and noticed. It might require passing some out for free to makers you know will try it out and let you use there name a picture if it works out good.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
.......like very clean W-2 "cough cough Don make more steel"......
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Don didn't make that steel or have it made. He bought a left-over supply from manufacturing. It was a one-shot deal and when it's gone - it's gone.

That said, I like materials that perform. They key ingredients to me are density and stability.
What they're called is sort of irrelevant - to me.
I'm currently using what is called Brazilian Cherry. Not something you hear everyday, but very colorful and dense. Actually chosen by the customer.
There is an enormous selection of south American woods that are suitable for knife handles.
I don't know how you could go wrong by trying.
 
I believe it was Stacy who said that he can automatically charge X dollars more for a knife made with Hitachi steel. So yes, the "brand" can be a factor.
 
12345678910 said:
Which one will be the next ivory, the one that gets confiscated off knife show tables and the owners fined ?
Click to expand...

Greenberg Woods said:
The woods i buy are mostly farmed or sustainabily harvested and are currently listed as the least threatened.
Click to expand...
Don't fool yourself Ben. Mammoth ivory is not threatened and is now banned in some states. More states are trying to ban mammoth ivory. You could have a real or perceived violation of a law or ordinance. Remember Gibson Guitars supposed violation of the Lacey Act?

I personally would not touch Desert Ironwood.

There are lots of domestic species that have beautiful figure. Why risk yourself, your company and/or your clients getting in trouble with the government now or in the future?

Chuck
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Don't fool yourself Ben. Mammoth ivory is not threatened and is now banned in some states. More states are trying to ban mammoth ivory. You could have a real or perceived violation of a law or ordinance. Remember Gibson Guitars supposed violation of the Lacey Act?

I personally would not touch Desert Ironwood.

There are lots of domestic species that have beautiful figure. Why risk yourself, your company and/or your clients getting in trouble with the government now or in the future?

Chuck
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Again, while it technically could be a risk in the future, the wood is common throughout south america and is currently being farmed extensively In brazil, Peru and Suriname. Thousands and thousands of people in the U.S use it for decking The wood is not in the least bit threatened. Could it be in the future? Its possible. But again, this isnt a rare tree that they are leveling the jungle for. Its a farmed product that rarely produces burls.
 
Name Sells...My family has been making and selling things for over a hundred years in one form or another.Mostly furniture.That is a constant throughout the hand crafted world be guns,knives,instruments or furniture..
Ive personally seen knives priced at $350+ that sell faster than two dollar beer just because of who made it that I would not give a hundred bucks for. Then Ive seen $150 knives not sell that were of better quality just because no one knew the maker..
That's just the nature of this game..It takes a while to build a brand. Some folks do it with hard work and outstanding quality. Some do it with outlandish claims and fan clubs.
 
Kentucky said:
Name Sells...My family has been making and selling things for over a hundred years in one form or another.Mostly furniture.That is a constant throughout the hand crafted world be guns,knives,instruments or furniture..
Ive personally seen knives priced at $350+ that sell faster than two dollar beer just because of who made it that I would not give a hundred bucks for. Then Ive seen $150 knives not sell that were of better quality just because no one knew the maker..
That's just the nature of this game..It takes a while to build a brand. Some folks do it with hard work and outstanding quality. Some do it with outlandish claims and fan clubs.
Click to expand...

Makes sense in respect to names of Makers, but how do you think it stacks up with names of materials, Ie Ironwood vs Ipe or Ambonya vs Aflizia
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Don't fool yourself Ben. Mammoth ivory is not threatened and is now banned in some states. More states are trying to ban mammoth ivory. You could have a real or perceived violation of a law or ordinance. Remember Gibson Guitars supposed violation of the Lacey Act?

I personally would not touch Desert Ironwood.

There are lots of domestic species that have beautiful figure. Why risk yourself, your company and/or your clients getting in trouble with the government now or in the future?

Chuck
Click to expand...

Kijiji, the Canadian version of Craigslist also bans ivory and specifically includes fossilized Mammoth ivory with that.
 
In a certain sense, I think comparing the "sell-ability" of of a steel type to a wood type or handle material is comparing apples to oranges. It's kind of like comparing a car engine to the rims, or a trim package. Which one generally get's the most press?

Steel is almost strictly performance based (with a few exceptions), whereas wood handles are typically more of an aesthetics choice, over "performance" (certain exceptions applying here as well, of course).

Now, in another sense, everything boils down to marketing, and I think it's certainly within the realm of possibility to build a name/demand for a certain species of wood. Just depends on what kind of spin you put on it. ;)
 
Something to consider when you're selling your wares is that when a customer is judging your woods strictly by a photograph on a web site the customer will naturally gravitate toward what he's familiar with or has heard of, partly or perhaps mostly because they only have a photograph to look at.

High quality photographs might help but most customers wish they could touch, feel and look at your wares in person.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
Makes sense in respect to names of Makers, but how do you think it stacks up with names of materials, Ie Ironwood vs Ipe or Ambonya vs Aflizia
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Well, literally everyone knows about ebony, even people in the non woodworking community. The value of this wood baffles me, as IMO a good dark piece of Wenge, Ironwood, or dyed xxxx looks almost the same (surely accomplishes the same task without some of the huge ecological issues surrounding ebony). Yes these woods have more grain, but, that's part of using wood, to showcase grain. At least that's my reasoning. If I wanted a featureless black thing I would stain dark, or paint it or use a synthetic...

Back to the topic, I think the perceived value of the wood based on the ideas attached to its name play a huge part in its prominence, just as a makers reputation does. Wood stereotyping basically. And the unknown versus the tried and true.
 
One factor that comes into play for me is knowing how a wood works in the shop. Some are dry, some are oily, some have other unknown (to me) characteristics that might be a challenge due to lack of experience.
I would tend to favor what I know, not so much by name recognition, but by knowing what I can do with it on a handle.
 
Name of a material doesn't make any difference to me, for one simple reason: people use different names to describe the same thing all of the time whether due to geography, industry, or simple colloquialisms.

For example, customer orders a part built with Material 20. No one knows what that is, because it's a customer spec. Look up the customer's specification, and Material 20 is ASTM 572. No one refers to this material as "ASTM 572" they call it "grade 50." Oh, grade 50? Now I know what you're talking about. 50 ksi low carbon steel.

Or, "box elder." What is that? To me, it's a beetle, not a tree. Acer negundo? Sorry, I can't into latin. Ash leaf maple? You mean an Maple Ash? Now I'm on the same page.

1080+ I can assume it's "like 1080" but better? Something added maybe? 80CRV2? Oh, 1080 with added chrome and vanadium? Still not sure what that is.

In the first case, I'm going to get a mill cert that the material I bought to build the customers part is within the range of what they requested. In the second, I'm going to want to look at a picture to see if that wood looks like something I want to use, or trust your judgement on it's properties because you describe it as wood of this type and density and stabilized etc etc. In the third case, I want to see the chemical composition of the material, or AKS description of what it is and why I should use it, because I trust them.


Names of things mean very little to me. Whether I trust the people describing the properties of those things is all that matters to me.
 
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