Natchez Bowie Handle

Was the Natchez always a cable tang? There were x-ray pics of the Natchez and Laredo floating around a few years back that seemed to show the Natchez as having a full tang. But all the more recent pics and Cold Steel themselves confirm it is a cable tang. So was it ever a full tang design? I think i saved those x-ray pics on my photobucket...yup here they are-

 
I can't remember who posted them but clearly the Natchez-like blade has a full length tang. Maybe it was a pre-production Natchez with a different tang, or a copy of the Natchez design made with a full tang by another maker?
 
well, simple. its a nostalgia (marketing) knife.. think about it this way, there is probably less than 1% probability (I just checked, there is around a 0.000098 % probability that you could be murdered this year) that someone in the US is going to be involved in a gun fight ( or broken in or in a deadly encounter), yet millions of guns are sold every year, why? cuz people want em and are willing to buy em... that's it. Same logic applies here.
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Sorry. Not logic but a strawman argument.

Built properly for what?
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Heavy use for a large bowie. You know, like the trailmaster.
 
then you go for a trailmaster.. even more simple. cuz this is for something entirely different.
 
then you go for a trailmaster.. even more simple. cuz this is for something entirely different.
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Have two. A Recon scout as well as a bunch more. I know it's specialized and all but I would like that design with a "proper" handle. One as tough as my trailmaster and recon scout.

By the way the O-1 Trailmasters seem to be selling well. Most places are sold out. That knife has been around a long, long time but it keeps getting better. I'm waiting for the O-1 Scout as well.

I'm not above getting the Cold Steels that aren't really useful but make me happy. My Pole Axe is an example. I just see so much monstrous performance potential in the Natchez it calls to me. As it is though it's in the category of an art knife to me now without a real tang. It's even beautiful like one but I'm not at the stage in my life I can afford knives I won't be using. I officially retire February 2nd., so unfortunately I can't get them all. :)
 
The cable tang is a non issue with me; I put that one to bed a long time ago. When the X-rays pics of the Laredo handle first showed up on the internet, and Cold Steel had to switch to Japanese SK-5 steel with the knives put together in China, I did my own testing by doing everything i would do with a Bowie, only much much harder with a "China Doll" Laredo. It came through with flying colors!! I also talked with several well known Bowie makers about the cable tang and was told that it was a very valid method of doing the knife and handle. Everyone has a right to their own opinion on this, but I have the utmost confidence in both the Laredo and Natchez.
 
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I've checked our archives and we have never made a full tang Natchez.
I've had the pleasure of being involved in a lot of knife tests over the years and I've never seen a cable tang fail.
I agree, if you are looking to modify or customize your knife, a full tang with scales is going to be easier, but that's really just a matter of personal preference. To me, that would be an entirely different knife.
I'd enjoy seeing a knife like that in our line up too, but it would be a very different beast.
The Natchez is a fighter, and despite it's considerable size it's very light and very, very fast in-hand. Much of this is due to the cable tang construction.
 
OOC, has anyone ever actually SEEN the tang on a Natchez break? I've seen videos of the handle SCALES breaking(when people were putting them through ridiculous abuse). but I've never seen the tang itself break. Basically, I'm just wondering where all this apparent "fear" of the weakness of the cable tang is coming from.
 
marenoa said:
Again, its for dueling... those ounces go against speed and agility. Which in the case of a dueling knife are, along with reach and sharpness probably the most important features you are looking for. Edge retention and overall strength are clearly secondary.

Maybe I was not clear in my first point, Making a blade stronger by adding metal does not necessarily make it better, it can actually be VERY detrimental to the overall performance of the blade. Why? because extra weight can affect the overall balance of the blade, pack-ability, agility, reach, etc, etc. there is a point of negative marginal returns when you add more steel to a knife.

Another thing, have go considered that if CS decides to go with a full tang, that means they will either have to shorten the blade or make it out of a thinner stock if they want to keep it around the same weight? Also, by making it more handle heavy, the blade will feel (and probably become) slower?...

remember, before thinking about strength, first consider the intended purpose and then think about how strong the blade needs to be to perform without any issues.. not the other way around
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A full tang Natchez would let people mod the handles; full tang would probably turn it into a good chopper (With the right steel and possibly handle materials and style.), and so forth. I'm not necessarily saying that they should get rid of the cable tang -- just that it'd be nice if they offered a full tang alternative.

If they did come out with a full tang version, they wouldn't need to reduce overall length or thickness -- it currently weighs 22.2oz, and I don't think a full tang version would weigh much more than 24-25oz.

Does anyone know if the 1917 Frontier Bowie will be full tang? And does anyone know when they'll be hitting stores? And does anyone know if the picture on Cold Steels site is a real picture? The blade sort of looks fake/blurry -- is that caused by the finish or something?
 
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tholiver said:
I figure CS will eventually get around to doing a machete version of the Natchez like their machete versions of the Smatchet, Gladius, Falcata etc. That would be not the same thing but would still be good fun nonetheless!
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They do. The 12 inch Bowie Machete is a fine machete facsimile of the Natchez, and would be pretty easy to finish the job with mods, given the 1055 steel.
 
I have the CS Machete bowie. Its good but i was thinking one closer to the Natchez dimensions and with a guard, the same way they did the more recent Smatchet machete which has a metal guard (encased in high impact plastic).
 
I have a Natchez Bowie in my collection. I've never broke the handle because i know its capabilities. chopping and batoning aren't its best friends considering the design of the handle. a full with, full tang knife would be the tool. cold steel customer service has served me well. i was actually debating between the the SRK and fallkniven S1 a few years back and while the S1 might be a level up on the fit and finish, i didn't like the fact that they don't offer re-handling for their knives as kraton will degrade overtime and will get loose during hard use. cold steel on the other hand offers re-handling with either under the warranty or with a small fee. to be honest VG1 vs VG10 you won't even notice the edge retention difference in real use. unless your actually testing it side by side cutting hemp rope or boxes.
 
marenoa said:
well, simple. its a nostalgia (marketing) knife.. think about it this way, there is probably less than 1% probability (I just checked, there is around a 0.000098 % probability that you could be murdered this year) that someone in the US is going to be involved in a gun fight ( or broken in or in a deadly encounter), yet millions of guns are sold every year, why? cuz people want em and are willing to buy em... that's it. Same logic applies here.

Built properly for what?

here is a link to an article on gypsy stuff.. don't pay attention to it, just browse down and look at the blades in the drawings...
http://www.culturaspopulares.org/textos7/articulos/suarez.htm
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Now take those numbers and multiply them by the percent chance that a person will be dualing with a bowie while the gunfight/murder occurs. You'll begin to see how small the chances of a bowie dual are, even relative to the chances of being in a gunfight.

There is a 100% chance, however, that regardless of if the bowie is cable or full tang, some people will not be satisfied.
 
I think good balance can be had without a cable tang, most good bowies have a normal, thick hidden tang style handle. And no they do not transmit loads of shock in to the arm when chopping.
 
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