natural patina vs. man-made

Pete1977

Pete1977

Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Messages
3,376
since I started training for this new job in mid april, I have been carrying the 96OT I picked up this winter. I've had multiple patinas done with mustard, ketchup, apples, seawater and the like. the knife hasn't left my pocket but once I started getting out to sea again I began to notice the salt water began to rust the blades, even with the mustard patina. after my last trip, out of ocean city on memorial day weekend, I polished the blades with some mothers mag wheel polish and q tips to get rid of the man-made patina. there was still some staining from both the seawater and the mustard but for the most part, the blades were back to being shiny. then I went and bought a bag of apples. :) I've eaten one to three apples a day since then, using the clip and spey blades equally, and they are starting to show the beginnings of a nice grey patina. :) I'm going on a gillnetter monday and I use the knife out there to sharpen my pencils. I will let you folks know whether the natural patina protects the blade from rust better than the man-made one. until then, its time for another couple apples. :D
 
I've been wondering the same thing. I've patina'd my CV Soddie Jr., CV mini Traper, CV Pen knife, and all with the same result. I keep them in my pocket and after some sweat and humidity, they rust up like no Patina was ever applied. I've used Lemon juice, Apples, Vinegar, Naval Jelly, Pears, mustard, you name it, and nothing seems to be working. Maybe I have very acidic sweat, but I was wondering the same thing, if a natural patina wouldn't be better.
 
I bet that while a forced patina may be better than no patina at all, the real thing will always be the best. I say this after looking at my Grandad's old knives. The surface of the steel is all worn-down and smooth. I'm wondering that with regular use, the blades otherwise exposed microscopic crystalline structure "smooths over" forming a type of protective barrier? Anyone?
 
My experience is that a carbon blade with a patina - regardless of how acquired - will rust in the right circumstances: dampness, humidity, a bit of acidicness, etc.

The patina just gives a bit of protection. It's not like coating the blade with stainless steel!

Patina plus oil helps even more. Keep the blade oiled!

But if you're living or working in an environment that just gets to the carbon steel - get a stainless blade!

(And I say that as someone who really likes high carbon blades!)
 
I think patina is patina no matter if it took 10 years or 10 min to be put on. I do believe a good patina will soak up and hold oil better than a blade with no patina.
 
I use mine often but about every other day I take about 5 seconds to wipe a small amount of 3-n-1 oil on the blades on my sodbuster jr. Its in my front right pocket were it gets a lot of my heavy sweat. My medium stockman rides in my back pocket and I rarely oil it. Neither of them have been having any rust issues. I am in the heat and humidity all day everyday and haven't had any problems. Apples and grapefruit are my fruits of choice with CV blades.
 
the blades were heavily oiled with wd-40 when I took it out. I've used Dexter Russell boning knives for years at sea, and those went unmaintained for days on end:eek: seawater and carbon steel don't go well together. however, with the amount of exposure this knife had, and the amount of rust on it, with the manmade patina, I was overly impressed. there was a single rough spot in the shape of my thumb print on one blade, and on the other was just a rough patch of darker patina. there was no brown rust. and this was 36 hours of exposure to salty humid air and seawater. Mothers polish took the rust off and the patina too, and that is when I decided to polish the whole blade with the mothers, and use it to cut fruit etc. for a natural patina, which if i do say so myself, is coming right along. :D

pete
 
I don't know about protective properties, but I think that naturally acquired patinas tend to look better than the applied type.
 
I'm guessing it's like getting a tan. If you sit out in the sun all day, get a really bad burn, it will in a few days turn nice and brown, but then a few days later it's faded. However, if you tan little by little, evenly, over the course of a few weeks, you eventually get the same dark tan, and it won't fade away for a few months. Or like loosing weight. You crash diet for a few days, loose a bunch of pounds, then go eat and it comes right back. However, if you diet slowly, little by little........ etc. I wonder if it's the same with a patina.
Here's a question for you wise old sages of the carbon blade. I have a CV Soddie Jr. which I have applied man made patina to. Didn't like it, so I removed it and tried to apply another. The blade didn't darken as well anymore, and when I look closely at it, I see pitting. Did the acids in the lemon juice or vinegar oil burn the blade? Did I mess it all up?
 
I haven't seen any pitting in mine, and this knife has had long term exposture to seawater with minimal maintenance. and that was with the mustard patina. The rust was surface rust, and was more black than brown, but I was able to feel it. it was rougher than the patina around it, and it was only on the area of the blade near the nail nick where my (salt water wet) fingers contacted the steel, and the edge where the blade contacted the (salt water saturated) pencil. It was removed with WD-40 and a paper towel before I took the patina off with the Mothers. The only "permanant" marks on the blade after the mustard patina was removed were some faint black "rings" reminiscent of a damascus pattern on polished blade faces. I quote "permanant" because the mothers polish didn't remove them, but I am sure some steel wool or 2000 grit sandpaper will.

Anyhow, the natural patina is coming in quite nicely. I washed and oiled the blades and pivot pins this morning, sharpened the 96OT and am ready for another day with it. :)

pete
 
I've been carrying an unpatinaed CV Sodbuster Jr. for a few weeks now. When I say unpatinaed, I just mean that I haven't dunked it in vinegar or rubbed it with mustard or anything like that.

It IS starting to get a patina and staining up nicely, however. On one particularly muggy, hot summer night on the town a couple weeks ago I had it in the front pocket of my jeans. When I got home, I noticed there were a few small rust specks on the blade. That had be worried for about, ohhh, .00034 seconds. ;) I just scrapped 'em off with my thumb nail, wiped my finger prints and what not off the blade with my t-shirt, and jammed it back in my pocket.

This brings me to what I sat down to write about .... the ever-changing nature of carbon steel. Man, I just love that my knife blade looks different today than it did last Sunday. And way different than it did the Sunday before that.

There are marks and stains from my thumb and finger prints where I pull the blade open. There are marks from where I've cut up apples and other edibles ..... and those marks keep changing hue - first blueish-purple, then brownish and eventually (if prior experience is any indicator) that dull gray we all love.

Anyway, this is my first Case CV knife and I'm just having a ball watching it patina before my eyes. Oh yeah, and it cuts like the dickens too!
 
Been trying to obtain a patina on a Weidmannsheil for a number of weeks now. tried the mustard bath, some blueing, tried lemon, not much, been using it on apples etc. Greyish colour not much else. As it is deep stamped on the blade with the name, I'm not keen on rust taking hold-but it doesn't...

Beginning to wonder IF IT is carbon..maybe Weidmannsheil used a version of D2 as it seems corrosion proof?

My main moan with carbon is that it imparts a taste on food, which I dislike.Also, 3 in 1 oil or suchlike and food is not a good idea....
 
willgoy said:
Been trying to obtain a patina on a Weidmannsheil for a number of weeks now. ... Beginning to wonder IF IT is carbon..maybe Weidmannsheil used a version of D2 as it seems corrosion proof?

My main moan with carbon is that it imparts a taste on food, which I dislike.Also, 3 in 1 oil or suchlike and food is not a good idea....
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you've got stainless. I really doubt Weidmannsheil ever used D2, but I can't say that I know for sure.

Lastly, regarding carbon and food ...... they don't impart a taste forever. Once a really deep patina sets in, the blade/s will no longer give your food a funky taste.
 
No, it's defo not stainless!

Interesting that the patina will prevent the taste problem, I will keep trying:D
 
Hey Fellas,

I thought I would weigh in here with a quick comment from about 36+ years worth of experience on carbon steel of all types in regard to the patina question..

When an even solid charcoal grayish patina is achieved in a good and honest manner, it naturally takes some time. Now depending on the slipjoint's or fixed blade's use, it may be 2 months or 2 years. But that is how its done. If a patina is forced on by the various aforementioned methods already stated, its just not the same..

My advice is to take your time, eat your apples, peaches, pears, and citrus of all description and enjoy all of the stages of the blade leading up to the full on patina. Trust me, over time you will achieve a very fine patina in the natural order of things that no forced man made hurry-up patina can match.

Just my .02 worth
 
thats the plan sunnyd! :D

I wanted to put the man-made patina on to give some rust protection because I intended to and do use the knife at sea for work. I was spoiled with the atlantic salt's no maintenance necessary use and have been moving onto a minimalist and traditional path with my knives. plus funds are tight and the 96OT was inexpensive. :D

pete
 
Pete1977 said:
thats the plan sunnyd! :D

I wanted to put the man-made patina on to give some rust protection because I intended to and do use the knife at sea for work. I was spoiled with the atlantic salt's no maintenance necessary use and have been moving onto a minimalist and traditional path with my knives. plus funds are tight and the 96OT was inexpensive. :D

pete
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Hi Pete,
Is the 96OT a new one from Taylor Cutlery or a more vintage 96OT built by Schrade?
 
I got it NIB from a sporting goods store in the town I used to live. it was old stock though. it says SCHRADE on the tang of the clip blade with USA 96OT beneath it. They've had a bunch of old timers untouched for years in the case and on the display.

hope that helps

pete
 
Pete1977 said:
I was spoiled with the atlantic salt's no maintenance necessary use and have been moving onto a minimalist and traditional path with my knives. plus funds are tight and the 96OT was inexpensive.
Click to expand...

Apropos of nothing, it just strikes me as ironic that you have been moving onto a minimalist and traditional path, and you say funds are tight, yet you purchased another knife at all (when you already own a Spyderco Atlantic Salt). I would think minimalism and financial prudence would keep you from acquiring more stuff that you don't really need.

(Sorry for the sermon ...... guess I've been listening to too much Dave Ramsey.)
 
Whoa!. That's fantastic. It sure would be fun to go in to that store and clean out the whole cabinet display with just a little bit of cash..

I did this not to long ago with an old ACE Hardware store in a small town just north of where I live that was going out of business. The guy had a Case display that was about half full of knives. All the knives he had were the early 1980's-1990's. But nothing newer than that all marked down because of "old stock". I also got a helluva bargain from time to time at Lowe's with Schrade's and Case knives before they stopped selling them and started pushing their own Chinese bunk.
 
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