Neck Knife Legality in California?

[Zombie Zeke]

Specifically San Bernardino County, my google fu is weak...

I'd like to know length of blade and concealment legality.

Thanks!

 

[Christian]

Specifically San Bernardino County, my google fu is weak...

I'd like to know length of blade and concealment legality.

Thanks!

Don't know about San Bernardiono Co., but any fixed blade carried concealed is a felony in CA. You might get away with it if yoou openly carry it around your neck.

 

[glistam]

Don't know about San Bernardiono Co., but any fixed blade carried concealed is a felony in CA. You might get away with it if you openly carry it around your neck.

Well, it's a misdemeanor (it is now anyway, but back in 1996 it was a felony).
San Bernadino has no specific laws on knives that would be applicable to neck knives, so you default to state law: Fixed blades must be open-carried, folders of any length may be concealed. No switchblades or butterfly knives with blades over 2 inches may be carried, but they can be owned and kept at home.

Keep in mind, there is such a thing as a folding neck knife (not an endorsement, just an example): http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-featherlite-clip-point-blade-with-aus-8-steel/p/K-93B-KYD/

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Well, it's a misdemeanor (it is now anyway, but back in 1996 it was a felony).
San Bernadino has no specific laws on knives that would be applicable to neck knives, so you default to state law: Fixed blades must be open-carried, folders of any length may be concealed. No switchblades or butterfly knives with blades over 2 inches may be carried, but they can be owned and kept at home.

Keep in mind, there is such a thing as a folding neck knife (not an endorsement, just an example): http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-featherlite-clip-point-blade-with-aus-8-steel/p/K-93B-KYD/

12020(a)(4) PC is a wobbler. it can be filed as either a misdemeanor or felony, booking will nearly always be for a felony.

 

[mtnfolk mike]

any fixed blade you're carrying, must be displayed in plain sight... i have worn neck knives out and about, and have had no trouble.. then again, i live in a small mountain town, where lots of folks carry knives, both fixed and folders..

 

[risen]

12020(a)(4) PC is a wobbler. it can be filed as either a misdemeanor or felony, booking will nearly always be for a felony.

More than likely. Gotta keep pumping those stats.

However, with a clean record, should nearly always be reduced to a misdemeanor, I believe (depending on the knife/situation, as long as it's the only charge, and it sticks).

 

[glistam]

12020(a)(4) PC is a wobbler. it can be filed as either a misdemeanor or felony, booking will nearly always be for a felony.

That's interesting and very odd for those of us from other states. Here in Maryland, the designation of felony or misdemeanor is carved in stone on each individual criminal statute, even the vague "common law" ones.

 

[kingsqueak]

Not that uncommon to have statutes that are open for interpretation unfortunately. NJ writes things in a very vague manner intentionally. Up to officer discretion and how the case is stated, many times for 'intent'. The back story is important.

Unfortunately this means the officer's back story much much more than the accused. You are at the mercy of the judge and the officer....it's worse odds than a blackjack table.

Standing around a parking lot talking with some friends can be enough to invite problems. The trend here is that anyone not locked away in their homes must be suspicious...so one must consider things carefully based on their local area.

I've had guys get very angry, simply because they stopped me, couldn't find anything wrong and my reason for driving around was to simply be 'out for a ride'. When I was in my twenties, these stops meant tickets...now in my 40's they just get angry that there was no reason for the stop and further confused why anyone would just be 'out' without a particular destination.

With 'enforcement' mentality like it is here, one must be very careful of the 'laws'. I wouldn't want any of them to be aware of a neck knife here...wrong or right, there will be paperwork and hassles all around.

NJ the "Stay in your home unless you are going shopping, nothing to see here." state

 

[Zombie Zeke]

Thanks guys!

 

[MORIMOTOM]

More than likely. Gotta keep pumping those stats.

However, with a clean record, should nearly always be reduced to a misdemeanor, I believe (depending on the knife/situation, as long as it's the only charge, and it sticks).

the booking will be for a felony, rather than the misd, because it gives somewhere for the da to go.

in other words, the charge can easily be reduced. the reverse is not the same.

 

[risen]

the booking will be for a felony, rather than the misd, because it gives somewhere for the da to go.

True, but it also benefits in so many other ways.

Booking (if an arrest actually takes place) for a felony helps the jail's intake numbers, which benefit at budget time when justifying State/County monies, and/or when asking for more cash/staff for the next year. Those stats directly relate, I believe.

An initial charge/arrest for a felony also looks better on paper for law enforcement's numbers, for the same reasons stated regarding jails.

in other words, the charge can easily be reduced. the reverse is not the same.

That depends. It *can* be easy to crank up from a misdemeanor, and even add on more charges (after initial arrest, before trial).

Possible reasons: New information/evidence (stuff that didn't show up or might've been missed when the initial arrest was made & report filed), like prior record, probation/parole violations, gang enhancements, new witnesses coming forward with info (depending on circumstances), arrest/s for new offenses while waiting on first trial, etc... . Yes, all this just from an initial/single knife possession charge.

Although, the likelihood of missing a past record & probation/parole violations during initial background checks are slim, they have been known to happen.

And, there is always the possibility that the officer might just confiscate the knife and let one off with a warning, depending on the situation.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

True, but it also benefits in so many other ways.

Booking (if an arrest actually takes place) for a felony helps the jail's intake numbers, which benefit at budget time when justifying State/County monies, and/or when asking for more cash/staff for the next year. Those stats directly relate, I believe.

An initial charge/arrest for a felony also looks better on paper for law enforcement's numbers, for the same reasons stated regarding jails.

in any line of work, people are expected to be productive. it is no different in jails or in police work.

however, in times when officers are being laid off, and jailers are taking furlough days, the end result is more work needing completion by fewer people.

not saying stats are not important during budget reviews, but that will vary from agency to agency. many are not stat driven, and budgets are based on things other than arrests and cite numbers.

the agency i work for is more service driven. in fact, our stats are rarely reviewed. we don't post arrest numbers, cite numbers, or track the number of cleared calls per unit.

That depends. It *can* be easy to crank up from a misdemeanor, and even add on more charges (after initial arrest, before trial).

Possible reasons: New information/evidence (stuff that didn't show up or might've been missed when the initial arrest was made & report filed), like prior record, probation/parole violations, gang enhancements, new witnesses coming forward with info (depending on circumstances), arrest/s for new offenses while waiting on first trial, etc... . Yes, all this just from an initial/single knife possession charge.

Although, the likelihood of missing a past record & probation/parole violations during initial background checks are slim, they have been known to happen.

And, there is always the possibility that the officer might just confiscate the knife and let one off with a warning, depending on the situation.

true, but you are adding new information to the equation, and thus changing the circumstances. many things can happen between booking and trial. but in my experience what you describe is not a frequent happening by any means. especially if the court system is backlogged, which is common in larger cities.

and adding charges would not be the same as increasing a charge from a misd to a felony. you are talking about separate crimes that require a new filing.

 

[risen]

in any line of work, people are expected to be productive. it is no different in jails or in police work.

It should be, if there's a risk of intefering with the interest of justice, which I believe it does.

however, in times when officers are being laid off, and jailers are taking furlough days, the end result is more work needing completion by fewer people.

Dunno what that has to do with our line of topic, except maybe justifying the focus on stats.

not saying stats are not important during budget reviews, but that will vary from agency to agency. many are not stat driven, and budgets are based on things other than arrests and cite numbers.

Like traffic tickets? No, can't agree with that one. In one significant way or another, stats are always important, regardless of the agency, but more importantly with agencies like law enforcement.

There's no way stats are completely separate and/or unrelated from overall performance of agencies and its staff/officers.

You, yourself, said "not saying stats are not important during budget reviews", implying that they do matter. I just believe they matter more than you think/say they do.

the agency i work for is more service driven. in fact, our stats are rarely reviewed. we don't post arrest numbers, cite numbers, or track the number of cleared calls per unit.

Interesting. And, how do you keep track of service-related calls, etc...? Again, someone has to be keeping count. One way or another, that count is being looked at. Also, there's no way classifications aren't being recorded (infractions, misdemeanors, felonies). There are requirements that have to be met in this regard. Someone's keeping tabs.

true, but you are adding new information to the equation, and thus changing the circumstances. many things can happen between booking and trial. but in my experience what you describe is not a frequent happening by any means. especially if the court system is backlogged, which is common in larger cities.

My intention was only to point out that there are instances where it is fairly easy to raise and/or increase the charges, and the "new information" I mentioned can be the usual sort of thing that may surface during the course of a case.

While most of what I'm posting here is based on my CA experience. I saw similar instances while working in lower Manhattan court, as well, and NYC is considered to be a pretty large city.

and adding charges would not be the same as increasing a charge from a misd to a felony. you are talking about separate crimes that require a new filing.

I was referring to both raising & increasing charges. The scenarios I've mentioned have been known to apply to both. I know. I've seen it.

In some cases, I believe it would only be a matter of amending the current complaint, not a whole new filing.

You seemed to only focus on the felony side of a wobbler and how it benefits the DA, when its clear to me that it benefits a chain of related agencies, as well. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

i see your points.

regarding our tracking, its just not frequently done.

calls are archived digitally, and stats can always be pulled, but i just don't see it happening often. we know who works and who doesn't.

they will be reviewed most often if there is some type of complaint. where i work, no one is really keeping a count. again, us line level guys know who works and who doesn't. management considers productivity and effectivenss differently. i know, i see it every day. but i won't air dirty laundry here, or anywhere public or with anyone i don't know.

i never said stats aren't important, they certainly can be. some departments adjust stats, one way or another. there was a time when a certain agency was downgrading crimes to indicate lower crime stats. ie, shooting someone wasn't attempted murder, it was assault with a deadly weapon. never really understood or agreed with the logic.

i also never said stats were separate or unrelated from anything, only that dependence on them will vary. i will say that during our negotiations, the call for service volume is always presented, and the other side of the table is not terribly concerned.

everything is recorded, then reported to the fbi for the ucr. i know that, and im sure you do as well.

While most of what I'm posting here is based on my CA experience. I saw similar instances while working in lower Manhattan court, as well, and NYC is considered to be a pretty large city.

I was referring to both raising & increasing charges. The scenarios I've mentioned have been known to apply to both. I know. I've seen it.

well, your experiences and mine have clearly been different. ultimately both are anecdotal, and the only thing i can do is acknowledge that we have had different experiences for a variety of reasons. neither makes the other's untrue.

i see what i see perhaps because the lowering of a charge is far more freqeunt than the opposite.


eta....

the exception with us are k9 and motors. there has been discussion of the need for these units over the last few years, and they are statistacally tracked. but in a department of 350, they comprise 15 total officers, 10 motors and 6 handlers.

 

[risen]

i see your points.

regarding our tracking, its just not frequently done.

calls are archived digitally, and stats can always be pulled, but i just don't see it happening often. we know who works and who doesn't. ...but i won't air dirty laundry here, or anywhere public or with anyone i don't know.

Yes. Also, I suppose most of the more intense number crunching may be getting done higher up at the administrative level. I agree with the laundry aspect and respect your position.

there was a time when a certain agency was downgrading crimes to indicate lower crime stats.

I've heard of this practice. Funny how it's done sort of for the same reason as upgrading, performance/results, and even funding.

ie, shooting someone wasn't attempted murder, it was assault with a deadly weapon. never really understood or agreed with the logic.

Hey, it wasn't like he/she actually killed anyone.

Sorry, couldn't help it. Ever since I saw that in the beginning of RoboCop, at the precinct. That, and the "repeat offender" (I repeat, I will offend, again.). Those scenes get me everytime.

...we have had different experiences for a variety of reasons. neither makes the other's untrue.

This is true. In the end, it may all just come down to levels of exposure within the system.

Thank you, sir, for the dialog. I appreciate it.

Be safe.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Yes. Also, I suppose most of the more intense number crunching may be getting done higher up at the administrative level. I agree with the laundry aspect and respect your position.


I've heard of this practice. Funny how it's done sort of for the same reason as upgrading, performance/results, and even funding.


Hey, it wasn't like he/she actually killed anyone.

Sorry, couldn't help it. Ever since I saw that in the beginning of RoboCop, at the precinct. That, and the "repeat offender" (I repeat, I will offend, again.). Those scenes get me everytime.


This is true. In the end, it may all just come down to levels of exposure within the system.

Thank you, sir, for the dialog. I appreciate it.

Be safe.

my pleasure sir, any time.

take care counsellor.

 

[risen]

take care counsellor.

Not a counselor, but close.