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neck knives and axes..some thoughts

Well. . .
Like I've mentioned before, if you look at history, all cultures had a big/small duo. Some sort of big chopper and a small knife. Even Nessmuk used his hatchet and pen knife for the vast majority of his outdoors work (by his own admission), and the "Nessmuk knife" got comparatively little, specialized use.

I think it's well known that in northern climates the axe is king. The most popular was the "trapper's axe". About 24" haft and 1.5-2 pound head, depending on the maker. These really are not heavy, and for their versatility, well worth the weight. Most of the weight is in the head, so a 24" axe doesn't really weigh that much more than say, a 15" hatchet with a comparable head. For clarity, I define hatchet as a tool designed for use primarily one handed, while an axe is designed to be used primarily two handed.

Axes are only dangerous when used improperly. If one is not going to put in the time to learn to properly use one, then sticking with a saw is probably a better idea. Not picking on anyone, just stating in general. Usualyl axe accidents happen because people:
1.) Don't keep them sharp
2.) Don't watch where the follow through/miss will take the bit, and plan accordingly
3.) Don't understand the proper geometries to use when using an axe (a good example is the Youtube video of the guy who's saying that the Fiskars axe suck because beating away with almost straight on blows with a SPLITTING AXE didn't work well.)

The axe is very versatile and very effective when properly used. You have to decide if it's worth developing the skills. Geeking and flailing with an axe is dangerous.

Large knives (also machetes, kukris, etc), are a little safer than the axe in unskilled hands. Generally, a miss with the sweet spot on the blade will yield a poor hit either tipward or scaleward, depending on if you misjudge long or short. So you are more likely to bury the blade in the wood, than in your body on a "miss". Some people just like blades better than axes. Machetes are also very light for their size.

In reality, if kept properly sharp, the chopping implement is going to be faster than the saw (unless it's a powered saw). A wild swing with the chopper is more dangerous than blade breakage on a saw (seen it happen, it was bloody, but no loss of limb). The only real advantages of the saw are safety and lighter weight. Each person has to pick the optimization that works for them.

Now, the neck knife. It depends. Are you restricting this to "neckers"? In which case, I hate them.
However, if you are including knives the size of an RC3/Busse Active Duty, they are wonderful companions to the big chopper. Also, I tend to carry my choppers on a baldric (except axes/hatchets), and the smaller knife on the baldric strap. I've posted pictures of my kukri/R10 rig. So there's a 5 inch blade, carried as easily as a necker, and just as accessible and unobtrusive.

As for the question of why chop when you can find smaller deadfall, or cut down a sapling, well. . .
1.) You may not want to fell a live sapling.
2.) There may not be any small deadfall. Especially in areas that are frequently camped, the small stuff might have been used up by guys who only carry pruning saws and can't process larger trunks :p. A lot of the times the trunks I'm talking about are 18-24" in diameter, not something you are going to progressively push into your fire. However, with a proper chopper, you can split off portions which then get shaved for tinder, processed into smaller and larger pieces for the sustained fire. Why not use it instead of felling a live sapling?
 
Pit..Funny I've been playing with a similar idea but a vastly different design.. Good stuff.

Don't keep me hanging then buddy, let's see what you came up with !!!:thumbup:

I have been re-thinking mine and maybe it doesn't need the point on the end, this would make it a little more sheeple friendly !!!
 
When Jimi is on his knees, he is still tall enough that an accidental miss can still swing into his thigh :D Perhaps laying down on his belly and swinging his axe would be safest ;)

So hi is big enough to carry a full size axe.:D

Jozsef
 
I'm working on it still, I'll Try to get some pics up when I get home from may marathon work week end... is more like a fat ,blade heavy cs bushman with a cutaway under the blade similar to yours.. so it carries. like a knife but it could be hafted to a cut poll,
incidentally one of my other designs will have come to life in a knife I'm expecting from Bryan Breeden any day.. But it is very different.. more of a utility knife.
 
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We've covered knife vs axe. Now how about some thoughts on neck knives. That was part of the OP
 
love'em they are hand yand light.. I think of a neck knife thatis any knife thatis short enough to allow for neck or pocket carry in some instances a light mor amight be considered a neck knife
 
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I am definitely a big fan of small fixed blade knives. But for the fact that I carry it in a leather pocket sheath rather than around my neck, my EDC blade could be considered a 'neck knife'.

Little blades like this are great for most everyday tasks, whether on the trail or off. They can whittle fuzz sticks, notch sticks for a trap, process food, and take care of most normal cutting tasks.

My definition of 'necker' is simply a small fixed blade that is worn on a cord around the neck (the blade itself could have just about any profile). This carry method has its merits. I like to wear my Becker Necker around my neck when I am canoeing or snowshoeing, as it allows for quick access without having to dig around in my pack or take off my gloves. Generally, though, I'm not a huge fan of wearing a cord around my neck, and I would rather carry my EDC in my pocket or on my belt, or strap a 'necker'-type knife to the strap of my pack.

All the best,

- Mike
 
We've covered knife vs axe. Now how about some thoughts on neck knives. That was part of the OP

I like them, but I don't like to wear them around my neck. I've been carrying these sized blades in a firgure-8 (MercHarness) set up...still low profile and you can quickly draw from under your T-shirt or jacket (just have to be careful not to slice your shirt:eek:

I like them because they are:

1) Handy and often easier to "draw" than most folders
2) Easier to clean after messy jobs as opposed to a folder
3) Easy to conceal and carry in several different positions/areas
4) Usually a one-piece, fixed blade and inherently stronger than a folder

I prefer Kydex sheaths with a tight fit as they are typically carried upside down. My Izula sheath is a great fit and perfect for this type of carry. The Fallkniven WM-1 is comfortable to wear against the skin and the VG10 less prone to rust riding under the pit (not pitdog:D).

Why not have/carry one? Even if it's a backup, they don't weigh enough to complain about, and about the only issue is the safety concern of neck carry (have a break-away system) or getting snagged on something when hiking off trail or climbing around.

ROCK6
 
We've covered knife vs axe. Now how about some thoughts on neck knives. That was part of the OP

Kinda covered it here:
Now, the neck knife. It depends. Are you restricting this to "neckers"? In which case, I hate them.
However, if you are including knives the size of an RC3/Busse Active Duty, they are wonderful companions to the big chopper. Also, I tend to carry my choppers on a baldric (except axes/hatchets), and the smaller knife on the baldric strap. I've posted pictures of my kukri/R10 rig. So there's a 5 inch blade, carried as easily as a necker, and just as accessible and unobtrusive.

To expound further:
I'll carry this one, in a kydex sheath (right side up) on a neck lanyard in the woods (since I now use a pack with a hip belt):
100_0033.jpg


So, for this discussion, does that qualify as a neck knife, or does it have to be one of those stupid skeletonized handled ones? ;)
Here's a pic of the R10 on my baldric strap:
Quickdraw01.jpg


Not a neck knife, but the same idea: smaller blade carried in a secure, yet easily accessible manner.

So, to reiterate earlier: the big chopper and a small(er) blade -- carried in whatever fashion -- is a good, and time tested, idea.
 
The main barrier that keeps me from carrying a larger fixed blade is the concerned looks I might get from passers by, passers by with cell phones.


Ditto.

While threat of arrest is very unlikely in the woods,technically I can only carry an above four inch blade while actively hunting or fishing.Hiking or camping doesn't count.:grumpy:

In some areas a 911 call of "a maniac with a HUGE knife" might just get a trooper or officer to respond.



And I like neck/pocket fixed blades. I always have one along with my almost 4" fixed.
 
See, that's the same reason I like choppers and leave the axe at hope. A Big knife may make you look like a psycho:D, but an axe makes people think that you're an axe murderer:eek::foot::D

One of the reasons I tend to like and lean towards the larger knives...I can wear a smaller knife on my belt a have a larger, heavier knife tucked away in my pack.
 
So hi is big enough to carry a full size axe.:D

Jozsef

I'm to clumsy , even layin down I would cut a toe off:D

As far neck knives go, one thing I dislike about many even ones I have made is that the handels are too small and adding the weight to make the handle large enough for my liking literally give me a pain in the neck and I would have been better of carring a decent folder, for me the cutting task I would be using a necker for I could just as easily carry a larger(when open) folder and have belt knife or a saw.

jimi
 
J wade.. Perhaps a stick or hidden tang nercker might be better.. Lighter and still mor sturdy than a folder
 
Feel bad for you guys...

Ditto.

While threat of arrest is very unlikely in the woods,technically I can only carry an above four inch blade while actively hunting or fishing.Hiking or camping doesn't count.:grumpy:

In some areas a 911 call of "a maniac with a HUGE knife" might just get a trooper or officer to respond.

Another reason why living in a 'Nanny state' sucks:thumbdn: No BRKT ''Gunny' model for you guys!:barf:

I carry a smaller blade in a pocket, in kydex or on my belt in leather. Not a fan of having anything strung around my neck. My favorite samll knives run along the likes of BRKTs 'Little Creek', 'Colonial Patch', 'Mini Northstar', and some newer preowned models which I recently came into. All have enough handle for a decent grip and enough blade length to get the job done. I may have a larger blade along depending upon the outting I'm on, such as a SAR5, and then my NMSFNO. I get progessively larger knives into the mix the longer I expect to be out. A saw of some type is always in my pack, like the Fiskars 'sliding saw'. That cuts the wood to manageable size, the knife breaks it down to working size, the smaller knife can do it's thing in getting the fire going.

I would take an ax on a much longer trip, or one that is decidedly a basecamping trip. In that situation, I know that I am going to be using larger quantities of wood, and a real ax will process more large wood with less effort than a knife and baton.

Of course whenever we forumites have a get together; it would be prudent to actually do these demos with lots of folks present and trying the techniques. If nothing more it solidifies in their minds the actual amount of work needed to get the tasks done. Conjecture is one thing, the actual workload is another IMO/E.





And I like neck/pocket fixed blades. I always have one along with my almost 4" fixed.
 
J wade.. Perhaps a stick or hidden tang nercker might be better.. Lighter and still mor sturdy than a folder

Honestly I have carried folders for then better part of the last 15 years used them at work in industral setting, in the yard, in the bush(hunting,camping)on a boat , everyday and have never had a problem , A good liner lock folder (spyderco,benchmade, buck, SAK,ect.) will take a beating, and fold right up and store neatly in your pocket , I would trust a liner lock over a stick tang in that size anyday.

I am not a big fan of having large knives around my neck, for me I look at knive like the izula and the beckerknecker,the BRKT canadian ect as what is about the biggest I would carry as a neck knife (if ever) and bigger than that I would carry on my belt and would proble go up in size to a 8-10 inch knife but for what I would do with a neck knife a folder will work just fine and I could probly have a larger knife on me in the folder.

The way I look at carring is like this 4 blade inch and under-folder
4-8 blade-belt knife, I really don't feel the need for anything larger, with a saw I feel competant I could handle my cutlery needs in the bush, mostly using my folder and saw.

jimi
 
In my above post, it did not correctly post, and only the section by Todd A is the first 3 sentences, the rest is my post. Fuglyed it up!
 
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