Need a new Down Parka

Thomas Linton said:
There are "Waterproof breathable" fabrics that are several times as breathable as Gore (until they freeze shut or are covered with a film of water). eVent is the best. Experimental results at: www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

Down is never "bombproof." If you have dry/sunny conditions most of the time (even if cold) or have an indoor retreat available, down will be acceptable most of the time - except when it is not.
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eVent is pretty amazing as well as the new polartec NeoShell is looking good. There are a lot of waterproof/breathable stuff out there...some laminated some coated. They all have rating all over the map!

Propriatary:
TNF: HyVent
Patagonia: H2No
EB: WeatherEdge Line
Marmot: MemBrain
Columbia: Omni-Tech
Mountain Hardwear: Dry.Q
LL Bean: TEK2
Mountain Hardwear: Conduit
OR:

Manufacturers:
Gore-Tex
eVent
Polartec NeoShell
Pertex

There are more and they all have different levels of performance, such is how many layers, coated vs laminated, and rating in regards to breathability and waterproofing. This stuff makes my head spin!

Down is certainly not perfect but there isnt anything that is. Weight to warmth ratio is high on it as well as compression, but its ability to resist water or shed it makes it lose all its benefits. This is why to me a waterproof shell around it is critical. Do I like Primaloft, Thinsulate, Climashield (also lamilite) and other synthetics...yes but they dont compress, are heavier and take way more to achieve the same warmth factor. If they get wet they still work. One insulation I am surprised has not been seen in more garments is Thermic Micro...like down but synthetic so it compresses good and keeps you warm even if it gets wet! I have only seen it in sleeping bags so far. There is one jacket but it isnt more then a ski jacket with this stuff.

One comment I got from a buddy was an age old one: "Buy once, cry once" Get a good jacket that fits your needs that has the best performance you can get...and own it for years!
 
Water freezes at 32, so I am not terribly concerned with the porosity of Gore (or any fabric) under 25-degrees. That's new to me. eVent and Schoeller are awesome fabrics and an order of mag more breathable than Gore, but none work for sh*t unless my pit-zips are open. I climb in eVent as I get my pick of shells at no cost, but I don't often climb in rain, and pack a Gore Tex 3-layer just in case.

I just bought a Marmot Neoshell and while not truly waterproof will suffice in all but sustained downpours. It's a great compromise.
 
"Buy once, cry once" is so true. The last shells I bought (personally) before the Marmot was an Arc'teryx Beta AR and an Alpha Comp on a trip for SA in 2003. Both are still in use.
 
I ordered the mountain hardwear downtown ($180 shipped) as well as picked up the Eddie Bauer superior down parka ($165 with tax). I have the Eddie now waiting on the downtown...once I have both I will compare and send the one I don't like back. When I saw the downtown before and I like that it has an zip off hood and pockets that are extremely insulated. It is also a little less bulky has a better waterproof rating, but might not be as warm. I think it will be just fine till the 0 mark. As the eddie will be really warm possibly too warm for anything more then 25. There are some trade off but we will have to see. I am considering getting a 3rd option and sending the others 2 back. Seeing how it is getting hard to find these jackets to try on anywhere don't have a ton of other options.
 
kf4pwb said:
It was adequate enough (again, the combination of rain/down) to serve me 6 weeks and 550 miles of the Appalachian Trail. Teens at night and a foot of snow in the Smokies for a couple of those weeks
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An elderly lady did the trail in canvas tennis shoes and a cloth sack for a "pack."

Down is like a big, diffuse cellulose sponge, only harder to get dry.

If it was the "bombproof" insulation, antarctic expeditions would use it. Conditions there are better than you describe, but they still don't use it.
 
zcd said:
I've got the Mountain Hardware parka, worn it for one winter and so far so good. Generally gets to -40 here in the winter, and as long as I have a sweater underneath I've yet to be cold. The odd feather comes out of a seam from time to time, but so far its held up quite well. The hood covers the face / mouth well when its done up, and the velcro makes it easy to put the hood up with big gloves on. For cold weather outdoor activity I personally prefer a goretex shell (with vents) and layers underneath, and the down parka for day to day activity
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Which mountain hardwear parka do you have.
 
devgru66 said:
Water freezes at 32, so I am not terribly concerned with the porosity of Gore (or any fabric) under 25-degrees. That's new to me. eVent and Schoeller are awesome fabrics and an order of mag more breathable than Gore, but none work for sh*t unless my pit-zips are open. I climb in eVent as I get my pick of shells at no cost, but I don't often climb in rain, and pack a Gore Tex 3-layer just in case.

I just bought a Marmot Neoshell and while not truly waterproof will suffice in all but sustained downpours. It's a great compromise.
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The problem is that you perspire - to a greater of lesser extent - 100% of the time. When the holes freeze, the warm moist air condenses to liquid water inside the shell. If what is inside the shell is down, down will absorb the water and collapse. The higher the "fill power," the quicker it collapses. Openings may somewhat reduce the speed with which water is collected inside your shell - if they don't let snow in.
 
IMO, that's what pit-zips are for. Anyway, I will assume the OP is more concerned with rain than sweat. None of these parkas are going to be very breathable, and certainly the Eddie Bauer variety will be the least technical. Good point on the collapse, and if he's fairly aerobic he should probably look into a parka with Primaloft One.
 
devgru66 said:
IMO, that's what pit-zips are for.
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I'm not meaning to single you out devgru - you just bring up a point that is notable for commenting. In my experience, i've never found pit-zips really effective - whether i'm actually climbing or just slogging up a an approach. I remember when they started coming out on the market and so many of us were excited at the possibility of what they could do. Unfortunately, they didn't work as well as we'd hoped.

devgru66 said:
Anyway, I will assume the OP is more concerned with rain than sweat. None of these parkas are going to be very breathable, and certainly the Eddie Bauer variety will be the least technical. Good point on the collapse, and if he's fairly aerobic he should probably look into a parka with Primaloft One.
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You bring up an excellent point here. I only wear my down parka when it's so cold there is no possibility for rain - for a couple reasons: First, if it's raining it's not cold enough for my parka - i'll be sweating; Secondly, down parkas/jackets/sweaters are not (generally) built as rain garments. Dripping ice/melting snow is not usually too bad of a problem and my parka's Conduit shell has been excellent in that regard.

As devgru states, Primaloft is an superb insulation for 'mixed' conditions (in my experience, i'm not too particular on which synthetic insulation - they're close enough is real-life performance it doesn't matter). This really gets at the heart of the down insulation vs synthetic insulation debate: Use the appropriate tool (insulation in this case) for the right job/condition.
 
So the eddie bauer parka is quite nice! It is heavy and the interior pockets are ample to say the least!! Arm movement is very good! zipper doesnt require you to hunch over and reach for it. Also very smooth. Exterior pockets dont seem that heavily lined for warmer...a thin fleece lining at best. Hood is big and not detachable. There is no powder skirt so skiing with this in colorado or sun valley (where I go...and it gets cold!) wont be the best. Shell seems of a medium weight nylon. This parka is gonna be hot as well! It is really suited for the 25F and below. In 30-35F might be a little warm. You neck might be a little cold in this however I cannot base anything on that till I get it in the low mercury.

One review brought up a great point...and I agree with this. He stated that he doesnt always have gloves or a hat with him...so a good parka in the cold should have good exterior pockets that can keep your hands warm when walking from place to place. And the same goes for the hood...a good hood that keeps the wind and cold off your head and ears! I agree with that completely! The eddie has a very good hood! I mean really good..it is heavy and will probably mess your hair up a little but it will keep you warm. The handwarmer pockets....maybe...but probably not. I think more jackets need to factor in this thinking. When I was shooting pictures with my iPhone for the snow sculpture comp...I couldnt wear gloves and it was 4-0F out! It would have been nice to put my hands in a pocket that I could have had my iphone in hand that would warm them up...just enough to I could pull them out take a pick...and back in the pockets. I have seen the touch sense gloves but they are thin and and not that grippy! I would imagine it would be easy to drop your phone with gloves like this on! Just my 2 cents on this.
 
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So I checked out the OR Stormbound...and bought it as well....it is stellar!!! Not as heavy or as warm but should be fine down to 10F maybe a little more. It is loaded with features! It is more of a ski jacket considering all its goodies but it is hard to deny this jacket. I might be stuck with 2 jackets after my quest. One for extreme cold (which probably wont see but 7-10 days a year and then the Stormbound which will see days from 40-35F to 5-10F and most of winter. The Pertex is really nice an the shells seems tough. This jacket is easily one of the best I have ever seen! Pockets are plentiful! Hood is well insulated and removal! The Balaclava is quite cool and will serve as a neck gator as well! You wont sweet your ass off in this jacket either...it seems to breath well. I wore it in the house for 20 mins and was fine. I am going to give it a try tomorrow when temps here drop to 12F. This will let me know if I have the right jacket or not. I am still waiting on the MH Downtown to show up in the mail, to see how it stacks up to the others. I do really love the EB but it is going to be an oven in anything higher then 10F...maybe 20F. It is big, heavy, great looking, great features, and extremely well insulated...might be too well insulated for where I am. Will let you guys know how the rest of the comparison goes....and will try and get some pix as well.
 
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