Need a Sharpener... Need Cash... Need Advice

J

JQCAMP

Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
23
Hello Blade Forums,

Haven't posted in a while, but have had a question growing on my mind. After a week of research, I've decided to go one step further and ask the blade forums community! I'll start from the beginning. Ever since I became interested in blades, my knowledge and interests have been constantly expanding. A tool is an important thing, but it is even more important to maintain this tool. From properly oiling your blades to cleaning out pocket lint from the inside of the frame. I have always tried my best to keep my knives "sharp", starting out with a 30+ year old sharpening stone to the Spyderco sharp maker, it's been a journey from the get go. I am able to maintain an edge with the spyderco sharp maker, but I have decided to switch things up a bit. In my area of Ontario, there are many people young and old that are "into" knives on varying levels, but one thing my friends and I lack is a fairly professional knife sharpener to send our knives to close by to get a better than good edge. So.... I decided to take on this role, I would never match up to the truly professional knife sharpeners that do it for a living, but considering I was in the market for a good (fool proof) sharpening system, I thought why not make the purchase into a small money making venture :) My main sharpening material would most likely be folding knives and the odd fixed blade. Possibly even some kitchen knives if need be.

Onto what I have been looking at... I was hoping for a manual knife sharpener, even though it is slower than other options, I prefer outcome over speed. Plus, it is expected to charge more for manually sharpened blades ;) The edge pro apex (probably 4 due to the more options it comes with) looks like one of my best bets. The Wicked Edge also looks like a great system, but is double the price tag!

So in a nutshell, here are my questions:
-What manual knife sharpening system would be best for my needs?
-What should my charging rates be?
-Any other input will be welcomed!

Thank you very much for any responses, I will try my best to respond to any questions and statements you all pose :thumbup:
 
I can't answer all your questions as I would have no idea what to charge for a knife sharpening. I sharpen all my friend's and family's knives for free because I have a Ken Onion Worksharp and its fast, easy, and I actually enjoy sharpening on that thing. I had an Edge Pro Apex before and it worked great, however, it was very time consuming (at least for me) and to be honest I never got as enthusiastic about sharpening a blade on that like I do the Worksharp.
 
jonnyt16 said:
I can't answer all your questions as I would have no idea what to charge for a knife sharpening. I sharpen all my friend's and family's knives for free because I have a Ken Onion Worksharp and its fast, easy, and I actually enjoy sharpening on that thing. I had an Edge Pro Apex before and it worked great, however, it was very time consuming (at least for me) and to be honest I never got as enthusiastic about sharpening a blade on that like I do the Worksharp.
Click to expand...

me too ,, i own the worksharp ,and its great ,, all my knives from my edc to kitchen knives,,and now im doing alll my neihbors' knives ,,which i charge only 5 a blade,,

if your gonna do a lot of knives then free free hand manually might not be your best choice ,,as it is time consuming ,,many knives with a worksharp is a little more effective.
 
Well I don't like screwing up my own knife let alone some one else's knife. Is this a career decision or part time endeavor?
 
Thank you both for the fast replies! The Worksharp is something I lost in the memory bank quite awhile ago from when I first became interested in knife sharpening. I opted for the sharp maker because it suited my needs fine at the time. I do understand what you are meaning with how time consuming it would be sharpening manually... Not to mention, the Worksharp is even cheaper than the Apex, which would be another bonus! I'm going to look more into the Worksharp now, but if you have time to answer this: Will the worksharp sharpen Scandi grinds? And also would you know how the end results would compare to the Apex? Thank you for all your information :)
 
EyeDog said:
Well I don't like screwing up my own knife let alone some one else's knife. Is this a career decision or part time endeavor?
Click to expand...

In regards to this, this is entirely a part time endeavour. My main goal was to make enough money over the next weeks/months to make back what I spent on the sharpener. Any extra money would be a bonus, but even if no money is made, owning a quality sharpener to maintain my tools is important to me :)
 
Why not stick with what you have? I have and use a KO Worksharp with grinder attachment. That's what I would use if I was going to do a lot of sharpening. However there is a learning curve with it.

Mike
 
If you have never used benchstones and performed heavy reprofiling and bevel setting I would recommend you start. Customers knives are not like yours, they will be trashed, chipped, bent, broken tips, blades with crappy grinds, blades with thick grinds, and on and on.

When it comes to sharpening I don't really have any love for "systems", I feel they create more bad habits than one needs while always needing compensation in some way. There are tons of accessories to compensate for all the flaws of the guided system which can send the price soaring over even my high end Japanese waterstones.

Then there's the issue of getting a new sharpening set-up and becoming proficient with it. In my experience this is not something that happens overnight, when I get a new stone I'm just not automatically going to get consistent results with edges at peak sharpness from the stone. It usually takes two or three months to understand how it works and how to obtain the best results. This is not the time to be testing new equipment while learning to sharpen someone else's knife.

What to charge? Charge nothing, once you can sharpen blades with good consistency and sharpness then evaluate the pricing for your services.
 
Jason B. said:
...It usually takes two or three months to understand how it works and how to obtain the best results....
Click to expand...

And "the best results" are hair whittling right? :)

I think a lot of people would accept slicing newspaper as sharp ... there are a lot of sharpening services/business which simply use a chef'schoice electric sharpener type deal ... if you're up front with your customers about what to expect... it could work :D

I came across http://sharpener-pete.blogspot.ca/ where he talks about starting up a sharpening business, finding customers, advertising, handling complaints.... 18 knives 4 hours ... 13min per knife costs about $1.25CAN per inch ... so guesstimating about 160 inches per 4 hours, so $200CAN / 4 hours , so $50CAN per hour of actual sharpening
so lets say that took an hour of looking for customers (emails/blog, talking to locals), down to $40CAN/hour ... hmmm
 
EyeDog said:
Why not stick with what you have? I have and use a KO Worksharp with grinder attachment. That's what I would use if I was going to do a lot of sharpening. However there is a learning curve with it.
Click to expand...

I realize what you are saying, the Spyderco Sharpmaker is a great sharpening system! The main disadvantages for me are that it is incapable of reprofiling a blade (at least in my experience), still it has a great room for human error and I am never truly satisfied with the edges I get. I only have the 2 stones that come from the kit and I don't think for me it is worth it to invest more money into UF or Diamond stones when for a bit more get a whole new system... Thank you for your input :)
 
Jason B. said:
If you have never used benchstones and performed heavy reprofiling and bevel setting I would recommend you start. Customers knives are not like yours, they will be trashed, chipped, bent, broken tips, blades with crappy grinds, blades with thick grinds, and on and on.

When it comes to sharpening I don't really have any love for "systems", I feel they create more bad habits than one needs while always needing compensation in some way. There are tons of accessories to compensate for all the flaws of the guided system which can send the price soaring over even my high end Japanese waterstones.

Then there's the issue of getting a new sharpening set-up and becoming proficient with it. In my experience this is not something that happens overnight, when I get a new stone I'm just not automatically going to get consistent results with edges at peak sharpness from the stone. It usually takes two or three months to understand how it works and how to obtain the best results. This is not the time to be testing new equipment while learning to sharpen someone else's knife.

What to charge? Charge nothing, once you can sharpen blades with good consistency and sharpness then evaluate the pricing for your services.
Click to expand...

First, I'll start with a thank you for your informative reply :) I understand what you are saying about the condition potential customer knives would be in. Especially, in my area with lots of working class citizens, many use they're knives hard and quite often maintenance is an extra inconvenience they don't bother with until they have to. I've been on the look out for systems like the edge pro apex due to the love others have for their "fool proof" methods. I realize there is still a learning curve to them, but I feel it still would be easier than learning the art of hand sharpening. I entirely agree that I should never take another person's knife to sharpen until I am fully confident with consistent outcomes on my own knives. I will not be charging anyone for my services until this point. If price was not an issue, would a system like the edge pro apex be a good system in your opinion. Free hand sharpening has always seemed like an option, but I think that I would never truly be happy with my results... I will keep it in mind though in my search ;)
 
bucketstove said:
And "the best results" are hair whittling right? :)

I think a lot of people would accept slicing newspaper as sharp ... there are a lot of sharpening services/business which simply use a chef'schoice electric sharpener type deal ... if you're up front with your customers about what to expect... it could work :D

I came across http://sharpener-pete.blogspot.ca/ where he talks about starting up a sharpening business, finding customers, advertising, handling complaints.... 18 knives 4 hours ... 13min per knife costs about $1.25CAN per inch ... so guesstimating about 160 inches per 4 hours, so $200CAN / 4 hours , so $50CAN per hour of actual sharpening
so lets say that took an hour of looking for customers (emails/blog, talking to locals), down to $40CAN/hour ... hmmm
Click to expand...


I agree with how many people that could be my potential customers would be fine with slicing newspaper being more than sharp enough for their needs. I've looked into the Chef's Choice sharpeners. I was more worried whether they would sharpen all types of knives and also how much it could "handle" the workload . If I was to do 20 knives at a time, would it burn out the motor? Very interesting article... Some good explanations ;) Thanks
 
Joe, for about $100 you can get a set of paper wheels and with a buffer from Harbour Freight. There is a thread at the top of this forum with all you ever wanted to know, but was afraid to ask about the paper wheels. It was started by Richard J that is the paper wheel guru. Here is a link to the thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ing-wheels-when-your-time-is-important-to-you

I have such a set up and do just what you are talking about, and have for about 2 1/2 years. I can sharpen a kitchen knife to thin paper slicing sharp in about 5 minutes or less. Multi bladed knives take a little more time as They are usually more important to the customers and I am extra careful with them. You can learn the system with 6 or 7 used thrift store knives, or use an old hack saw blade to learn on, as Richard suggests. Lots of good reading in that thread. Good luck in your endeavors!

Omar
 
When I first got my WSKO, a guy brought me a bunch of knives. He had previously brought me one knife at a time and they were all in bad shape. The batch of 12 or 14 he brought in at once was almost a joke. They were all beyond dull, with thick reflective edges. His strategy was to use kitchen knives until he got tired of them being dull, then he'd buy more low quality, low cost, mostly used knives. So he had a drawer full of extra dull cheap knives.

These took a lot of extra effort to sharpen, but they were actually GREAT for learning. First because I got to do a bunch of different shapes and sizes. Second because he didn't really care about the looks or even if I made a mistake or two. Finally, anything even a little sharper than what he brought me was a win for him. The hours I spent working on that batch, and another batch or two he brought me really upped my confidence and skill level with the WSKO. All done free hand; no guides.

Practice is definitely important, especially with a new system.

Brian.
 
OHALLUM said:
Joe, for about $100 you can get a set of paper wheels and with a buffer from Harbour Freight.

I have such a set up and do just what you are talking about, and have for about 2 1/2 years. I can sharpen a kitchen knife to thin paper slicing sharp in about 5 minutes or less. Multi bladed knives take a little more time as They are usually more important to the customers and I am extra careful with them. You can learn the system with 6 or 7 used thrift store knives, or use an old hack saw blade to learn on, as Richard suggests. Lots of good reading in that thread. Good luck in your endeavors!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thread from Richard J, I have thought about this before as many others have done this method with great effectiveness! I will ponder this further, although at first glance I don't think it's the method for me. I feel as if there is too much room for error and a greater possibility of ruining a knife... I could be wrong, but thank you for the ideas, I will take everything into account :)
 
bgentry said:
When I first got my WSKO, a guy brought me a bunch of knives. He had previously brought me one knife at a time and they were all in bad shape. The batch of 12 or 14 he brought in at once was almost a joke. They were all beyond dull, with thick reflective edges. His strategy was to use kitchen knives until he got tired of them being dull, then he'd buy more low quality, low cost, mostly used knives. So he had a drawer full of extra dull cheap knives.

These took a lot of extra effort to sharpen, but they were actually GREAT for learning. First because I got to do a bunch of different shapes and sizes. Second because he didn't really care about the looks or even if I made a mistake or two. Finally, anything even a little sharper than what he brought me was a win for him. The hours I spent working on that batch, and another batch or two he brought me really upped my confidence and skill level with the WSKO. All done free hand; no guides.

Practice is definitely important, especially with a new system.

Brian.
Click to expand...

On this thread it seems that the WSKO is fairly popular... To me, without doing much research, the Worksharp's seem to have less "finesse" than a manual sharpener, but increases the speed of sharpening greatly! I agree with any type of sharpening, practice is imperative ;) Thanks
 
JQCAMP said:
On this thread it seems that the WSKO is fairly popular... To me, without doing much research, the Worksharp's seem to have less "finesse" than a manual sharpener, but increases the speed of sharpening greatly!
Click to expand...

Note that I'm a little bit unusual, in that I use the WSKO freehand. So the "finesse" element is definitely there. At the risk of repeating myself, here's a video I made about how I do it.

[video=youtube;ApyDcJzKBgk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApyDcJzKBgk[/video]

Brian.
 
Jason B. said:
If you have never used benchstones and performed heavy reprofiling and bevel setting I would recommend you start. Customers knives are not like yours, they will be trashed, chipped, bent, broken tips, blades with crappy grinds, blades with thick grinds, and on and on.

When it comes to sharpening I don't really have any love for "systems", I feel they create more bad habits than one needs while always needing compensation in some way. There are tons of accessories to compensate for all the flaws of the guided system which can send the price soaring over even my high end Japanese waterstones.

Then there's the issue of getting a new sharpening set-up and becoming proficient with it. In my experience this is not something that happens overnight, when I get a new stone I'm just not automatically going to get consistent results with edges at peak sharpness from the stone. It usually takes two or three months to understand how it works and how to obtain the best results. This is not the time to be testing new equipment while learning to sharpen someone else's knife.

What to charge? Charge nothing, once you can sharpen blades with good consistency and sharpness then evaluate the pricing for your services.
Click to expand...

I think this is some very solid advice.

You're going to end up ruining a ton of knives if you don't understand the fundamentals of how to sharpen and repair steel in an efficient manner.

If you want to be a sharpening system ace, start with stones and your hands.
 
bgentry said:
Note that I'm a little bit unusual, in that I use the WSKO freehand. So the "finesse" element is definitely there.
Click to expand...


Very good video :) informative step by step instructions! Can I just ask why you and so many others use the WSKO freehand instead of with the guide?
 
JR88FAN said:
I think this is some very solid advice.

You're going to end up ruining a ton of knives if you don't understand the fundamentals of how to sharpen and repair steel in an efficient manner.

If you want to be a sharpening system ace, start with stones and your hands.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about the advice from Jason. I will most likely ruin many knives before I can "get it right". It seems this thread is going to freehand of some kind... This may be a good way for me to start and learn the principles, but something like the edge pro keeps coming into my mind ;)
 
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