Need a Sharpener... Need Cash... Need Advice

JQCAMP said:
Very good video :) informative step by step instructions! Can I just ask why you and so many others use the WSKO freehand instead of with the guide?
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Thanks for the kind words.

I use the WSKO freehand because it makes it just like a little belt sander; the skills are transferable to larger belt sanders, like a 1x42 for example. I see the following benefits of using it freehand:

1. Greater range of angles. You can literally grind flat to the face of a blade, or directly into the edge. Effectively nearly 0 degrees to nearly 90 degrees. Grinding at nearly 90 degrees is actually very useful for blades that have deep chips. Cutting the chips off by flattening the edge can make it easier to reform the edge. Or any angle in between that you choose. It's just more flexibility and choices.
2. Selective Grinding. As you saw in the video, I can work on any section of the blade I want to, in isolation. I don't have to draw the whole edge through; I can touch any part to the belt for as long or short as I want. You can probably do something kind of like this with the guide in place, but it's going to be awkward trying to position the blade, hold it, and turn the trigger on. Do-able, but not optimal in my opinion.
3. Two Hand Technique. Using two hands really gives you control over the blade. Especially near the tip.
4. No grit build up to scratch the blade. With the guide, grit can get trapped between the guide and the side of the blade, making scratches. You pretty much need to tape off any blade you really care about using one of these systems with the guide. Honestly, it's a good idea to tape off any blade you're really concerned with using any type of system, including stones. Using the WSKO freehand just reduces the probability of scratching the blade up because there's no guide to catch grit and slide on the side of the blade.

That's most of it; at least for me.

Brian.
 
I ask that you please not be one of those "professionals" with a Work Sharp hacking up knives. No disrespect to those that can get perfect results but in my experience that's about 1% of users. It would probably be best for you to stay away from power tools all together. Maybe, after a few years of hand sharpening and fully developing fundamental technique you can then think about machine sharpening.

The Edge Pro would probably do well but it has an issue with scratching the side of the blade and it's not going to save you any time. When you compare 1x6in stones vs 8x3in stones, just in surface area alone it's easy to see why bench stones are faster. If this is the route you really want to take then keep it simple with a diamond plate for setting bevels and Shapton Glass stones 500 and 2000 for sharpening.

If you want to keep it really simple get a DMT XXC and Coarse diamond plates for bevel setting and your Sharpmaker for finishing. Freehand is not hard and you already do it with the SM.
 
As said in other recent sharpening threads, my favorite right now is the KME. It's a good happy medium between the EP and WE, but on the lower end of the price scale.

As said above, if you want fast, go electric. But the faster it is, the faster you can "butcher" a knife. My advice would be to start out on one of the manual fixed angle guided systems....KME, EP, or WE. Learn the basics of whatever system you end up with, and practice on a bunch of cheap gas station knives. Then work on the rest of your knives. Then buy more knives and work on them. Then, maybe, you could be good enough to do some freebies for friends and family.

Don't go right out and set up a table at the next gun/knife show and expect to be paid. If someone hands you a $500+ knife, and you mangle the edge, well.....I wouldn't want to be that person behind the table asking for money. Could get ugly. ;)
 
I started off as a kid freehand with an Arkansas tri-hone, some random tiles, two sided stones from my great grandpa, and a random ceramic oven tile that works really well on kitchen knives. I still have them all and use them some for odd knives and hatchets. I have bought the sharp-maker and it works well once you have the bevels set right otherwise its very slow. So next, I picked up an Edge-Pro Apex and I love the thing even with the stock stones it can make some sick edges in a rather short period of time if you can get a good rhythm and keep the angles steady. But, after picking up a set of SG stones for the Apex and seeing how great they work I'm thinking of starting over again and buying some full sized SG bench stones and going back to more freehand sharpening because I think it can be faster and seems to feel more relaxing at times.
 
bgentry said:
Thanks for the kind words.

I use the WSKO freehand because it makes it just like a little belt sander; the skills are transferable to larger belt sanders, like a 1x42 for example. I see the following benefits of using it freehand:

1. Greater range of angles. You can literally grind flat to the face of a blade, or directly into the edge. Effectively nearly 0 degrees to nearly 90 degrees. Grinding at nearly 90 degrees is actually very useful for blades that have deep chips. Cutting the chips off by flattening the edge can make it easier to reform the edge. Or any angle in between that you choose. It's just more flexibility and choices.
2. Selective Grinding. As you saw in the video, I can work on any section of the blade I want to, in isolation. I don't have to draw the whole edge through; I can touch any part to the belt for as long or short as I want. You can probably do something kind of like this with the guide in place, but it's going to be awkward trying to position the blade, hold it, and turn the trigger on. Do-able, but not optimal in my opinion.
3. Two Hand Technique. Using two hands really gives you control over the blade. Especially near the tip.
4. No grit build up to scratch the blade. With the guide, grit can get trapped between the guide and the side of the blade, making scratches. You pretty much need to tape off any blade you really care about using one of these systems with the guide. Honestly, it's a good idea to tape off any blade you're really concerned with using any type of system, including stones. Using the WSKO freehand just reduces the probability of scratching the blade up because there's no guide to catch grit and slide on the side of the blade.

That's most of it; at least for me.

Brian.
Click to expand...

Excellent information and good explanation :) I am still weighing my options, but if I ever went with the WSKO this will be very helpful. All your reasoning for sharpening freehand on the WS are well justified. Thank you
 
Jason B. said:
I ask that you please not be one of those "professionals" with a Work Sharp hacking up knives. No disrespect to those that can get perfect results but in my experience that's about 1% of users. It would probably be best for you to stay away from power tools all together. Maybe, after a few years of hand sharpening and fully developing fundamental technique you can then think about machine sharpening.

The Edge Pro would probably do well but it has an issue with scratching the side of the blade and it's not going to save you any time. When you compare 1x6in stones vs 8x3in stones, just in surface area alone it's easy to see why bench stones are faster. If this is the route you really want to take then keep it simple with a diamond plate for setting bevels and Shapton Glass stones 500 and 2000 for sharpening.

If you want to keep it really simple get a DMT XXC and Coarse diamond plates for bevel setting and your Sharpmaker for finishing. Freehand is not hard and you already do it with the SM.
Click to expand...

In regards to your first paragraph, that is part of the basis of what has been nagging my brain with all the WSKO recommendations on this thread. I agree with so many of the recommendations on this thread, all the info is very helpful. Although, I feel like the decision is getting harder and harder! Many of you have good reasons to go in different directions. All types of sharpening suggested all seem to have their own advantages and disadvantages. I feel like freehand is not the way I'm heading at the moment though, I will definitely experiment more with different stones in the future because I think freehand sharpening is an excellent skill to have. I was edging towards the edge pro, but now I am concerned with the scratching you speak of. From my research, it seems that the best solution is to tape the blade and the "table". Do you believe that this would solve the problem? Thanks again for all your help :)
 
bflying said:
As said in other recent sharpening threads, my favorite right now is the KME. It's a good happy medium between the EP and WE, but on the lower end of the price scale.

As said above, if you want fast, go electric. But the faster it is, the faster you can "butcher" a knife. My advice would be to start out on one of the manual fixed angle guided systems....KME, EP, or WE. Learn the basics of whatever system you end up with, and practice on a bunch of cheap gas station knives. Then work on the rest of your knives. Then buy more knives and work on them. Then, maybe, you could be good enough to do some freebies for friends and family.

Don't go right out and set up a table at the next gun/knife show and expect to be paid. If someone hands you a $500+ knife, and you mangle the edge, well.....I wouldn't want to be that person behind the table asking for money. Could get ugly. ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. If it is no trouble to you, I would like to ask how you would compare the KME to the EP? Seem similar, but EP is much more popular, seems to be able to get better results and has much higher price tag! All your ideas are taken into consideration ;)
 
abizdafuzz said:
I started off as a kid freehand with an Arkansas tri-hone, some random tiles, two sided stones from my great grandpa, and a random ceramic oven tile that works really well on kitchen knives. I still have them all and use them some for odd knives and hatchets. I have bought the sharp-maker and it works well once you have the bevels set right otherwise its very slow. So next, I picked up an Edge-Pro Apex and I love the thing even with the stock stones it can make some sick edges in a rather short period of time if you can get a good rhythm and keep the angles steady. But, after picking up a set of SG stones for the Apex and seeing how great they work I'm thinking of starting over again and buying some full sized SG bench stones and going back to more freehand sharpening because I think it can be faster and seems to feel more relaxing at times.
Click to expand...

This recommendation of the EP is making that route more and more inciting. I am concerned about wanting to spend more and more money on higher quality stones like the SG ones though :rolleyes:
 
JQCAMP said:
In regards to your first paragraph, that is part of the basis of what has been nagging my brain with all the WSKO recommendations on this thread. I agree with so many of the recommendations on this thread, all the info is very helpful. Although, I feel like the decision is getting harder and harder! Many of you have good reasons to go in different directions. All types of sharpening suggested all seem to have their own advantages and disadvantages. I feel like freehand is not the way I'm heading at the moment though, I will definitely experiment more with different stones in the future because I think freehand sharpening is an excellent skill to have. I was edging towards the edge pro, but now I am concerned with the scratching you speak of. From my research, it seems that the best solution is to tape the blade and the "table". Do you believe that this would solve the problem? Thanks again for all your help :)
Click to expand...

It might, but I think changing stones would be your best bet. The stones I recommended don't really shed grit like other stones so that helps plus I would make the extra effort to keep the swarf wiped clean from the table and blade.
 
JQCAMP said:
Thanks for the reply. If it is no trouble to you, I would like to ask how you would compare the KME to the EP? Seem similar, but EP is much more popular, seems to be able to get better results and has much higher price tag! All your ideas are taken into consideration ;)
Click to expand...

The KME is almost a cross between the other two, but closer to the WE. The blade is clamped in place, but rotates so you don't need two stones/arms to use at the same time. You just work one side then flip. Pretty quick and easy to work up and refine the edge.

With the EP, you have to hold the blade in place with good force, and work the arm with the other. The one advantage to that is when you have a very large or unusual shape knife, you can easily move the knife around to work it. But that is also the weakness of the EP. If you don't keep constant pressure on the knife, it can move around which may require more work to get that perfect bevel.

I also have an EdgePro, but only use it for odd shapes because the KME is just too easy to get my signature edge. I also keep a couple of SharpMakers on the table with fine and extra fine rods for touch ups that need just a tiny more bite than a strop refresher.

I would recommend going to each manufacturers sites and watch their demo videos. Of course they all make it look really easy, but there is a small learning curve with just about anything. But it will help you see which one appeals most to your personality, style, or what you want to accomplish with it. Ultimately, with the right stones and a couple of strops, you can get a full mirrored edge with any of the three. But regardless of the cosmetics you finish with, the ultimate goal is a sharp edge. I have just found it easier to get both with the KME. For my needs anyway.
 
bflying said:
The KME is almost a cross between the other two, but closer to the WE. The blade is clamped in place, but rotates so you don't need two stones/arms to use at the same time. You just work one side then flip. Pretty quick and easy to work up and refine the edge.

With the EP, you have to hold the blade in place with good force, and work the arm with the other. The one advantage to that is when you have a very large or unusual shape knife, you can easily move the knife around to work it. But that is also the weakness of the EP. If you don't keep constant pressure on the knife, it can move around which may require more work to get that perfect bevel.

I also have an EdgePro, but only use it for odd shapes because the KME is just too easy to get my signature edge. I also keep a couple of SharpMakers on the table with fine and extra fine rods for touch ups that need just a tiny more bite than a strop refresher.

I would recommend going to each manufacturers sites and watch their demo videos. Of course they all make it look really easy, but there is a small learning curve with just about anything. But it will help you see which one appeals most to your personality, style, or what you want to accomplish with it. Ultimately, with the right stones and a couple of strops, you can get a full mirrored edge with any of the three. But regardless of the cosmetics you finish with, the ultimate goal is a sharp edge. I have just found it easier to get both with the KME. For my needs anyway.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input :) The KME system is definitely a Competitor if I was to go with a knife sharpening system (mainly between the EP, WE and now the KME) You mention that the EP can do longer blades, in your experience can you sharpen larger kitchen knives on the KME? Also, if you don't mind saying, what are the "right stones and a couple of strops" you mentioned?
 
JQCAMP said:
This recommendation of the EP is making that route more and more inciting. I am concerned about wanting to spend more and more money on higher quality stones like the SG ones though :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Also, I forgot to add:

The EdgePro makes it pretty easy to set that 30 degree edge for using the sharpmaker for touch-ups later too.

But, yes...it's easy to start wanting more or better stones and accesories especially for the EdgePro! :p
 
abizdafuzz said:
Also, I forgot to add:

The EdgePro makes it pretty easy to set that 30 degree edge for using the sharpmaker for touch-ups later too.

But, yes...it's easy to start wanting more or better stones and accesories especially for the EdgePro! :p
Click to expand...


Thanks for the tip :)
 
Hey everyone, thanks for all the replies! They have all been helpful and I will try to give back to the blade forums community in some way in the future ;) I think I'm definitely edging towards the edge pro apex 4... Anyone have any last words to help deter me from this decision? Any tips and tricks or things I should know about the EP?
 
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