Need advice for sheath material

Rilner

Rilner

Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Messages
60
Morning everyone!

Looking for advice on what to use for sheathing material. Spider senses are telling me Stingray leather, but Elephant is also a player. I'm hearing mixed thoughts on these though ~ some say Elephant lasts forever and ever till the end of time and will not scuff, while others say it likes to stiffen and crack. Some say Stingray is essentially waterproof (ha... haha), highly resistant to fire and abrasion while being the most durable while others say it isn't worth it because of the effects of abrasion *from* it. I'm the type of person who wants things to match and also have the "it must never fail" type mentality.

Kind of new at this mind you, and don't know if it would be advantageous to have a different inner layer to any such leather... need some WISDOM!


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I think it would help if the leather guys knew what you were going to do with it ?

Why does it have to be so abrasion resistant ?

Sting ray is nice but a bear to work with, (think drilling or punching through sea shells)
Elephant I have heard is tough.

A lot of leather is pretty tough too.

and well kydex is water proof :) and holds up pretty well.
 
Good point!

Simple sheaths for knives and a couple hatchets. It's not that that it needs to be so abrasion resistant per say though it is a cool feature; I'm just interested in durability, and hopefully the avoidance or leather rot from long excursions with lots of moisture involved (think Canadian winter). As I understand it, Stingray is very low maintenance, nice looking and robust, mind you I have known of those who will not even work with it because of things like titanium needles and such being non-negotiable. It's supposed to be 25 times more durable than cowhide, with Elephant being the only competitor in that category. I'm confused because explanations go from "I've had this (elephant) for X number of decades and it's lovely" to "Needs (more) maintenance (than ray at least) is tough to break in, stiff and cracks.

I do have one (partially) Kydex sheath with mesh on the outside, it has held up rather well so far. I've read it can dull your blades over time - good thing it's holding a finely crafted piece of Strider in 3V :peach:

Mmeehhhh... I may simply try both and see what's what when I'm able. I do love all the different colours of Stingray. "Oh noes, I'm lost!" *reflects sun off of shiny bright red ray sheath* <<<< entirely realistic
 
First of all, none of the leathers you have mentioned can be made successfully without a good veg cowhide core. Stingray is too thin, and Elephant is too soft the way it is currently tanned, Therefor either would have to be overlaid over some good cowhide. Another equally tough and wear resistant leather you haven't mentioned is Shark skin. Probably equal to Elephant all the way around, and easy to work with, but again needs the veg tan base sheath.

If you are getting into situations where the wear and tear, moisture etc is going to adversely affect your sheath to the point of failure, I'd advise you not to worry too much because you will be dead from the same environmental hazards, and wear and tear on your body, long before the cowhide gives up.

Paul
 
Is it drafty in here, or ~ oh no, it's just my bare naked lack of experience showing.

Didn't know that about Elephant, but yes of course that makes sense. A belt maker would be using a more dense base leather as the stabilising layer of the belt, and also perhaps for a core or 'ribbing' layer between the outer and base layers in cow or horse I would think. If it's that way for a belt, why would it be any different for a sheath or most any leather product using exotic skin for that matter? >_< Even I should know that.

Thank you for the information Paul. Today must just not be my day - brain's on vacation. This will be a good read for other beginners. As for Shark, I thought of it as being up there in terms of quality, but wasn't sure whether it was entirely on par with Elephant and Ray.


-Rilner, embarrassing himself so you don't have to.--
 
Rilner, I've been at this leather thing since 1951, and I generally learn something new daily so don't let your lack of experience slow down your enthusiasm.

Shark: I think is on par with Elephant in most every respect except price. Shark is less expensive. Makes beautiful inlays, or full front or 100% sheaths, but it does need that veg. tan base,because it's just not stiff enough on its own. The same is true for almost any exotic you name, or at least that has been my experience.

Sting Ray: I'm one of those guys you mentioned who will not work with Sting Ray. I machine stitch and it is hell on the needles and machines.

Elephant: If your customer can afford it, it's fine and fairly easy to work with, but it is very pricey. Also it is generally pretty thick and has to be split for most applications. Even the unsplit thick stuff does not have enough body to make a sheath using it alone, so you are still going to have that veg. tan core.

Then there is Lizard, Snake, Alligator, Crocodile, Frog, Ostrich (full Quill and leg), Beaver tail, Cape Buffalo, Ant Eater, and on and on and on.

There's a wealth of information here, so come on back, but be ready for a jab here and there;)

It's all good!:D

Paul
 
I've played around with crocodile, stingray, guitarfish, got some shark and cobra in the pipeworks but from my limited experience and personal opinion I think it all comes back to what Paul said, veg tan core. Every time I failed at making a sheath there was always an element of myself not understanding the nature of the leather enough and veg tan excels in most required criteria. As David said stingray is quite difficult to work with and I would recommend using a drill to make holes as well (although I have used diamond chisel before and surprisingly that works too).

Good luck :)
 
Thank you Paul :watermelon:

Wow ~ that is like over 40 years before I even... was. I guess I'm still ONLY A CHILD!! :acne:

Something else I wanted to ask about... should there be a moral concern with what leather I choose to use (obtained legally of course?)

I was mentioning to someone this morning the idea of having some items made from Elephant. He was almost yelling at me about how Elephants are beautiful animals, how they are dwindling and shouldn't be touched, and how no one slaughters any animal ethically, so on and so forth, regardless of International Law and limited harvesting. Apparently I should wear either cowhide only because they are being slaughtered constantly anyway, or wear no belt (that's a good idea >_>) or a rope (because I'm a hippy). When I thought aloud about Stingray and how their hides were a side effect of being hunted for food, the comeback was that you can't believe that unless you see it for yourself and how 90% of the creatures are dead because of us.

Is this person being ridiculous or do they have a point? I understand Elephants are more and more rare, and that they are being legally protected, their leather exports being strictly managed. Why then should I feel guilty any more than I would for any other type of leather? People seem to justify how they feel and what they want in any way they can, whether it's pompously dictating to others that there's a difference between "culling the herd" and taking advantage or endangered animals, or else taking the view that no one should use leather ever, because that's realistic. On top of that, independently of how we act, dozens of species go extinct every day.

You have been working leather for some time now, what do you think? I don't mean to make anyone feel uncomfortable with something like this, I'm just not sure how to look at it.
 
Your okay, Rilner. I don't think there has been an Elephant killed just for Ivory and hide in Canada for many years, (ever). You are without guilt so feel free to use the "remains" as you see fit and tell your friend to pound sand.

Any further discourse on my part would surely go political and for sure not be politically correct so I'll just leave it at that.

Paul
 
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Not a great photo. You can't see the full pattern because of the narrow window, but this is Anteater. It has kind of a rounded diamond pattern.

Paul
 
How does Beaver tail measure up? Didn't even know people used it until now. Some people have recommended it within the same class that we've discussed here so far ~ what a way to represent my Canuckery if it's on the same playing field!

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Rilner said:
I do have one (partially) Kydex sheath with mesh on the outside, it has held up rather well so far. I've read it can dull your blades over time - good thing it's holding a finely crafted piece of Strider in 3V :peach:
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Whoever told you this is 100% wrong.

All the advice you have gotten here is sound though :)
 
One more thing I was wondering about...

~ HYPOTHETICAL ~

You have a holster of... shark let's say. Maybe a layer or two of dense horsehide behind it. You decide to put a fourth layer of shark again on the -inside- of your holster and seal (welt?) the two layers of shark together.

Good idea, or not so good idea? I mean the inside won't rot from lack of drying if no moisture gets in in the first place, right?
 
I live in Canada ... Veg tan is fine for anything you are looking for. I live in Labrador ... Winter's do 't get more intense then up here ...
 
When I was in the Canadian forces my boots where leather ... They seen more action and wear them your sheaths will ever see and guess what ... I still have them. The key player with leather is maintenance and care. I still have a sheath made in the 50's I oil it and cream it ... With ... Hmmm I forget the name ... The can has 2 cowboy's on it anyways ... You're putting too much thought into this. They shouldn't Rot unless you leave them in a damp humid well head all year. When you come back from hunting take knife out ... Let dry, oil (with moderation) and cream. I even wash my sheaths if they are exposed to salt water (turr hunting or fishing)
 
How about Australian Cane Toads. I hated those things when I lived there. But I have seen sheaths and holsters use cane toad for accents.

I still want to make a pocket sheath out of one of the kangaroo scrotum's that I brought home. They make great coin purses, but I refuse to carry coins around any longer. They may as well house a knife.....or two. :D
 
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