Need advice on making San Mai

Tom Lewis

Tom Lewis

Joined
Feb 24, 2000
Messages
1,952
I would like to try to make some San Mai, but have never done it before and could use some advice and suggestions from those that have made it.
I have some 1/4" x 1" 416 ss, and some 1/4"x1 1095.
I am thinking about putting 4" of 1095 inside two 4" pieces of the 416ss to make the billet.
I have done a lot of forge welding, but never tried 416ss. Will my wire welder weld the billet ends? Or should I use wire to hold the billet together for the first weld.
Will borax work for flux?
How hot should I get the billet before welding?
Thanks in advance for any answers and suggestions.
 
I've never done any stainless san mai, but I've read about it quite a bit throughout the years. That said, the one thing I do know is that borax won't work with the stainless. You need to weld up all of the seams and do a dry weld. I believe you could also do a canister weld, or I've even read that Karl Andersen wraps the billet in the thicker stainless steel heat treating foil.

Other than that, I'll leave it to the guys with experience making it to give ya advice.

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
Get a hold of Karl, he will set you straight on all things San Mia. Full edge weld. Long soaks and uses his press, believe he leaves them under pressure for a while.
 
I do that combo. Yes you need to weld up all the seams and do a good job, if the oxide forms it is over. A thin layer of nickel is said to help with the problem of too much carbon migration. Also I have not had any success forging on the edges of the billet, it has caused delaminations. Also it is very difficult to drill or machine the steel after forge welding.
 
Yep, ask Karl. :thumbup:

I know he's discussed it in a number of threads in the past regarding people asking the same thing, so using the bladeforums google search engine would probably be very helpful as well.

Here's a link to great WIP which shows Claudio Sobral (CAS Knives) forging up a billet of his SS san mai, from which you also might pick up a few tips by reading through. :)

* CAS - RyanW Collaboration Knife (WIP)


~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
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do a 100 percent edge weld it is very important that there are absolutely no pinholes. you can use er70s wire fine, 75-25 argon/co2 gas works the best. I use pieces six inches long. this is very hard to do by hand. a press works but IMO a hammer works better and bigger is better here. weld at least a stub handle on the billet. your forge needs to be up to temp and thoroughly heated. most people use more heat than needed. for a billet made up of three 1/4 inch piece 2150- 2300 is fine. you only need to soak long enough to make sure the billet is at temp all the way through. one quick pass under the hammer or press and back in the fire. this should take less than a minute. now a fifteen -thirty minute soak, then back to the hammer/press and again work the full billet full length once per side and back in the fire. Now another soak but shorter this time ~ 15 minutes. for the third round you can work the billet a bit I like to double its length. another short soak and you can go to work on it. on the fourth weld I will work the billet both side ways and on edge just don't get too carried away working the edge. I start with 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch wide stock. let it go to 2ish inches wide during the first three welds then con the width to between 2 and 2 1/2 inches depending on what I have need for. thermal cycle a couple of times when you have finished let cool to room temp then a sub critical anneal. I use 2 hours at 1250 f slow cool in the oven. after this I have no problem drill sawing etc. this is for 52100/416 410. different materials may require slight adjustments to technique.

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Bill, thank you so much for freely sharing your hard earned knowledge. This is shortening my learning curve by years.

Warren
 
Coldsteelburns, thanks for the link, it was very informative. Bill Burk, thanks for the information you shared. Lots of good information.
 
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