Need for Speed?

[Elen]

I thought of another point.
This brings me to question (some more) the thing guys like to tout: "The more you know, the less you need."
Well, what if you're injured to where you CAN'T use your skills to build that nifty primitive shelter.
I know if I was injured, I'd rather unroll my sleeping bag/bivy under a tarp (even if I couldn't pitch the tarp, I could go "burrito-style") than make a debris hut. My bag+bivy+tarp is 5 pounds I'm willing to carry.

The point there, I believe, is that the more you know the less likely you are to be injured, to need makeshift shelter, to get lost, to need to chop yourself a house in the woods and so on, in the first place. But bad things happen to us mortals, so it's never a bad idea to be prepared. Personally, I won't easily give up my sleeping bag and tent or tarp - unless just to have fun for a night or two at most, living outdoors with minimal to no gear for the change.

If one is well prepared, one is immensely unlikely to ever need a debris hut or such makeshift shelters. With the right clothes, you wouldn't even need that sleeping bag or tent. And if you've got the latter two, you should be pretty comfortable indeed without needing to construct extra shelter. Of course, if you screw up and lose your gear, then it's a little different... so don't screw up.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Thanks for all of the thoughts guys. I hear and agree with everyone that I should have carried more gear. More specifically better clothing and a type of shelter and not necessarily more steel. Had I been really hurt even a chopper wouldn’t have helped much.

Now I have to work on improving my preparedness level without getting disgusted with packing stuff around that never gets used. ( I will have to remember though that when/if I need it there is no substitute)

 

[Cpl Punishment]

The point there, I believe, is that the more you know the less likely you are to be injured, to need makeshift shelter, to get lost, to need to chop yourself a house in the woods and so on, in the first place.

True, but this thread is about the sh*t happens phenomenon.

With the right clothes, you wouldn't even need that sleeping bag or tent.

Not necessarily.
One of the things most likely to cause hpyothermia where I live is torrential rains. Rain gear will keep you fairly good when moving around and such, but it's simply not enough to sleep in, rain WILL get in.

 

[Codger_64]

Thanks for all of the thoughts guys. I hear and agree with everyone that I should have carried more gear. More specifically better clothing and a type of shelter and not necessarily more steel. Had I been really hurt even a chopper wouldn’t have helped much.

Now I have to work on improving my preparedness level without getting disgusted with packing stuff around that never gets used. ( I will have to remember though that when/if I need it there is no substitute)

A tube tent will slip into a back pocket like a large wallet. Tell yourself that it is to use in case you come across someone else injured and have to shelter them while you go get help. But even such a basic shelter is a Godsend when needed. And if you don't have the strength or dexterity to erect it on a line, you can still slip into it like a sleeping bag or drape it over you.

 

[Ravaillac]

I've been using an hilleberg bivanorak from quite a while now.
Quite pricy (although not as much as many knives that spend most of their time in the drawer) but can be used as:
* (moderatly) breathable rain gear
* wind sack
* bivy bag
* sleeping bag cover

It weights about 600g (1 lb 5 oz) and I've been using it as main shelter for quick hikes as well as throw in the bag just_in_case rain/emergency shelter.

I think if main concerns are cold weather/wind I'd get the bivy bag.
If main concern is unexpected rain I'd get a poncho which is still more robust/versatile.

large trash bags or the infamous "survival" space blanket can be very useful to find that waterproof layer that is so rare in nature.

 

[zenheretic]

A good old tarp tent or rain poncho tent is great and is easy to erect.

I remember one time while fighting forest fires, I was attached to a Hot Shot unit fighting a fire in Glacier National Park. We put in a hard days work, and expected to be on the fire for at least another couple of days. Hot Shots are well equipped, have chopper support, and of course in the science of fire fighting you life depends on you keeping an eye on the weather.

We set up camp for the first night. I strung up some paracord, hung tarp, and hit the fart sack. I'm nearsighted, so in the morning, I woke up and of course everything is blurring but I knew something was way off. The tarp was at least two feet above my head when I went to sleep, but now it was only a few inches from my face. I reached up and pushed on the tarp. A bunch of snow slide off! It snowed about four inches that night.

We had modern weather equipment yet mother nature still pulled a fast one and it snowed. That could have been some deep trouple for someone out there without the right gear. Take at least a poncho, even if you don't expect rain or ...even snow.

 

[Elen]

True, but this thread is about the sh*t happens phenomenon.

Yeah, and that's why I like to carry some extra gear that I wouldn't necessarily need. Better to have and not need than to need and not have... It's true that the more skills you have, the less gear you will need to do X. But it's equally true that skills don't protect you from being unlucky. Like you said earlier - an injury is one thing that may prevent you from utilizing your skills to their fullest, and that's when some effective gear would be nice to have to help you where your skills now suddenly fail you.

Not necessarily.
One of the things most likely to cause hpyothermia where I live is torrential rains. Rain gear will keep you fairly good when moving around and such, but it's simply not enough to sleep in, rain WILL get in.

I would say it slightly depends on the rain gear used. If one is willing to go "heavy duty", there are some pretty effective solutions for even relatively heavy rain. But still, there's always exceptions to everything. Sometimes the weather will be so difficult that almost nothing short of a cabin and an enormous fire is enough. Those are the times when you don't want to get caught outside for the night with nothing but your skills to keep you warm.

 

[misanthropist]

Well, the other thing about rain gear is the fact that you WILL get wet inside it, from condensation, regardless of how effectively it keeps out the water from the outside.

This is true of everything from PVC to eVent to the latest Gore-Tex. Once the outside humidity reaches a certain point, even the best "breathable" fabrics will not breath anymore.

I live in one of the wettest, rainiest places in the Northern Hemisphere. And the only wetter places are ones up the coast from here, and yes, I've spent plenty of time there too! And I work outside, in the rain and sleet, all winter, until I break a bone and they send me home for a while at least!

Anyway if you are standing perfectly still and not doing any work at all it is theoretically possible to stay dry, I guess. If you are doing ANYTHING you will get wet, regardless of how much money you've given Helly Hansen, because you will sweat.

Similarly in the cold, while you can get away with only the clothes on your back, that's only really true if you are taking most of them off while working, and then putting them back on to rest or sleep. If your gear is light enough to hike in, it is not heavy enough to sleep in!

When it's moderately cold, say fifteen below, I will snowshoe or cross-country ski in very light gear - a polypro base layer, ski pants with every vent open, and gloves, with occasionally a light vest. Otherwise I would get very wet from sweating! So in my pack, there is a parka, a toque, a sweater, gloves, etc.

In extreme cold, like forty below, the same is true, but just with more stuff in the pack!

So in theory I agree that you can just sleep in your clothes, but not if they are the clothes you have for working in, only if they are spare clothes that you are keeping for the "rest" periods.

But in that case you have a pack anyway, and might as well have a sleeping bag and shelter...it's only another five pounds or so!