Need habaki for Pavel Bolf Wakizashi

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Apr 24, 2017
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Hey guys, I needed some help building my Pavel Bolf naginata naoshi wakizashi. It came bare blade and I needed someone who could make a habaki for it.

20160914_165545_zpsjyq9yv4s.jpg


I would also need some advice on how to shape the saya mouth to properly hold the habaki yet be able to clear the wider munouchi. I was thinking of making it aikuchi style.

Thanks!
 
I assume you meant monouchi. Just make the habaki as wide as the monouchi. On your blade, that should be about a normal size habaki. This will make the koi-guchi wide enough for the blade to pass the monouchi.

It is very easy to make a habaki, and there are dozens of tutorials in Shop talk and online.
 
Thank you Stacy. I may have a go at making a habaki myself. Would be pretty cool to make koshirae all from scratch.
 
You both are mistaken, the monouchi is the few inches below the yokote considered the sweet spot for cutting. You must mean the "Machi". The machi is where the habaki goes, it consists of the hamachi (ha-mon edge) and the munemachi (mune-edge), with the "ha" being the cutting edge and the "mune" being the spine edge.

Your sword is not a naginata naoshi. It is a shobu-zukuri wakizashi.

The habaki matches the geometry of the sword at the front where it stops at the hamachi. It does flare towards the nakago end ever so slightly.

See attached photos:
Monouchi (approximately):
Monouchi copy.jpg

Machi:
hamachi copy.jpg

Habaki:
Tanto_Nobushige_Habaki.jpg
 
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Uh no, this is a naginata naoshi, it is wider at the monouchi than at the machi with a diamond cross section. I would have to make the habaki unusually wide at the ha machi in order to clear the tip area.

Despite my typo I know general sword info. Thanks for trying to clear everything up.
 
Let me clarify one thing. The sword discussed in this post, in the photo at the top. It was made by Pavel Bolf just as shown ?
 
I'll tell ya one thing. You're gonna have to drill a hole in that there tang! :D
 
I would have to make the habaki unusually wide at the ha machi in order to clear the tip area.
Despite my typo I know general sword info. Thanks for trying to clear everything up.

Apparently, it is not clear. I only take the time to post this as I hate to see mis-information spread, but this is not a naginata-naoshi.

Being wider at the monouchi than at the machi has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with the habaki. There is no reason for the habaki to clear the wide area of the monouchi. Do you know what a habaki is or it's function? It goes on over the nakago(tang) and stops at the machi. It goes no further up the blade.

It is also irrelevant how wide your sword is at the monouchi or being diamond shaped.
Neither has anything to do with it being designated a naginata naoshi.

It was made by Pavel Bolf just as shown ? yes.

Then you may need to re-evaluate your knowledge of general sword info and study more.

If this is modern made just as shown then it is neither a naginata, nagamaki and certainly not a naginata-naoshi !! You can call a Volkswagen a Mercedes, but that doesn't make it so. It may be an artistic rendition of or a Naginata-naoshi inspired reproduction at best.

Naoshi means remodeled or reshaped. A naginata naoshi is a remodeled/reshaped naginata or nagamaki. Both Naginata and Nagamaki were pole arms with long nakago. Occasionally, they were cut down and reshaped into katana or wakizashi. The nakago was shortened and the blade reshaped. Not in every instance, but the overwhelming majority had distinctive grooves carved into them, called "naginata-hi". They may or may not have a yokote.

But without the naginata-hi (groove) yours more closely resembles a shobu-zukuri inspired shape:
bladeshapes_shobuzukuri.jpg



Here are links to a few genuine Japanese Naginata-naoshi and Naginata I have owned:
Notice the papers state one naginata or one naginata naoshi wakizashi. Be sure and note the naginata-hi(groove) and location of the habaki.

This one has yokote and naginata-hi.
http://yakiba.com/Wak_NaginataNaoshi_Shimada.htm

This one, no yokote:
http://yakiba.com/Naginata_Uda_KuniFusa.htm

Yokote, no naginata-hi
http://yakiba.com/Wak_Naginata_Kanekage.htm

Here are a couple of Naginata which have not been cut down.
http://yakiba.com/Naginata_Naotane.htm
http://yakiba.com/Nag_Kanemitsu.htm
 
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Yowza, SoCo those are some amazing-looking blades. Thanks for posting that info. :thumbsup:
 
Hm I always thought that if a blade has a naginata shape (ie wider towards the tip) then it would be considered along the lines of naginata naoshi. I know that there is often confusion regarding certain types of blades, such as what we are discussing. So I can pretty safely assume that without naginata-hi, as on my example, it would just be considered more Shobu-zukuri. Now I am more clear on the meaning of naginata-naoshi. Naoshi means to remake or redo, so it pretty much applies only to old re-purposed naginata that have been cut down. My understanding of the term was completely off. I have not seen examples of shobu zukuri swords being wider at the monouchi than at the machi area which was why I automatically assumed naginata style.

I understood your first point about it being wider at the base than at the machi and being able to clear the wider monouchi area. I also understand the function of a habaki and what it is. I think what I am getting caught up on is my mental image of the habaki being fairly wide at the base to create enough width for the tip, then carving out the saya ana. Maybe my imagination is just going crazy. I will have to search more to see examples of saya ana.

Thank you for those pictures, they definitely helped and are great eye candy.

Also, what is your background regarding Japanese swords Southern? I was a backyard cutter although I don't cut anymore, and was a sponsored cutter of Swordnarmory, though I never really dealt with nihonto and all the complicated historical details etc. that goes along with them.
 
I will echo what my friend Mecha said SC!
Absolutely amazing steel right there!
Wow!!
Thanks for posting those pics up!
Joe
 
Mecha, Joe, Thank you. Glad you guys enjoyed the post.

Jacob
I like to make it clear that I don't post these corrections because I enjoy correcting you, want to embarrass you, or try and come across as some great world authority, because I am not. I may know a little more than the average bear, but that is about all.

I take the time to address these types of posts because I genuinely want to see people interested in the Japanese sword to learn the basics correctly.

Over the decades, I have been amazed at how little most people, actually know about Nihonto. And I am referring to people interested in the Japanese sword, not the general public. This includes martial artists, iai practitioners, knife makers and many so called collectors. The majority of this mis-information comes from forums/online sources where people believe everything they are told is true, or from word of mouth from someone they trust. This comes from their desire to learn, combined with the assumption that everyone who posts a reply or shares information knows what they are talking about.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

The best way to learn is through sword groups/shows, published material, experienced collectors and reputable dealers (NOT GUN SHOWS & E-BAY!!).

You will find this post here in the "Sword Duscussion", read it and check out the link for the beginners page contained in the post: http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/nihonto-the-japanese-sword-basics-for-the-novice.1478064/
____________________________________________

One typo I wish to correct. In my first post I stated, "It is a shobu-zukuri wakizashi". I clarified it in my second post, however, I want to be sure you understand that it should have read, "it more closely resembles a shobu-zukuri inspired shape".

Here is something I am not 100% absolute on. I do not know of any criteria for this blade shape which says it can not be a bit wider in the monoucchi than at the machi. It is my understanding that shobu-zukuri (Iris leaf shape) is based on a shinogi-zukuri shape, but without yokote and they are tapered from the shinogi to the mune. Though, I have seen a couple of papered examples which did not appear to have the tapered shinogi-ji. If they were tapered, it was ever so slightly.

But, regardless this is the closest related shape to yours. Here is an example of one(Note I normally do not use examples which are for sale, but this was the only one I could dig up and it is only used in an educational capacity)
http://yakiba.com/Wak_Shobu.htm
___________________________________________

After reading your last post, I understand what your concern is (i think). Your concern(correct me if I am wrong) is the wider monouchi fitting through the koiguchi and the habaki still holding the blade securely. There is no doubt that it requires a more precision fit, but it will work.

Look at the example I posted yesterday of the big naginata. http://yakiba.com/Naginata_Naotane.htm

Notice how wide the saya is at the wide end, but also look closely at the nakago end. Look too, at the habaki on the blade. See how the blade just clears into the mouth of the saya, but almost instantly begins to flare in order to accommodate the wide portion of the blade.

Making a standard shirasaya correctly requires a lot of knowledge and practice.

Good luck.
Ed
 
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Yes Jacob K, it will be very cool to see the shirasaya you craft for the blade and hear your observations about making it. Everybody loves show and tell.

Though this thread would have been a lot more entertaining if you'd started ranting and nerd-raging about what's what in a Japanese sword. I'm a little disappointed that you're simply going to learn even more about nihonto, rather than freak out. Check out this thread for a great example of what I mean.
 
My curiosity is definitely piqued and I will be reading more on this very interesting subject.
Thanks Ed. Appreciate the sharing of knowledge!
Joe
 
Also.....the second to last link you posted Ed, is absolutely breath taking!
I can only imagine how wonderful that one would feel in hand.
Damn!
Joe
 
Mecha!!!!!
I must have read that thread 20 times! Having a real shitty day, pull that golden classic up and a smile will form immediately!!
Wish he would hit us up with a part II!!!!
Classic!
Joe

Yes Jacob K, it will be very cool to see the shirasaya you craft for the blade and hear your observations about making it. Everybody loves show and tell.

Though this thread would have been a lot more entertaining if you'd started ranting and nerd-raging about what's what in a Japanese sword. I'm a little disappointed that you're simply going to learn even more about nihonto, rather than freak out. Check out this thread for a great example of what I mean.
 
My curiosity is definitely piqued and I will be reading more on this very interesting subject.
Thanks Ed. Appreciate the sharing of knowledge!
Joe

Same here, SoCo. Thanks for taking the time to post such detailed info.

Damn right Palonej. We never got to see Stowe's ring pommel sword, what gives! :D
 
You guys are welcome, glad someone occasionally reads that stuff without falling asleep. :)

LOL, I remember the W. Stowe thread. What a nut job.
 
Thanks SC for the help, those pictures are making it clearer of the hurdles I need to deal with. That thread definitely has a lot of good info too.

Speaking of threads, I browsed that Mononoke thread real quick and man, that guy totally freaked out. Lol

Thanks to everyone and I will update as I work on the sword.
 
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