Need help, complete newbie analysis paralysis

[Alberta Ed]

F1 or Benchmade Puukko 200 would do.

 

[UNBLF]

No, not necessarily. Full tang really has nothing to do with blade length. Its all about construction, nothing more.
These are full tang construction, but the blades are only 2" long.....

Added weight because of the full tang is just unneeded added weight because of the full tang.....
Full tang isn't really any stronger than a proper skeleton tang construction.

I agree with what you said but I believe you kinda missed my context.

 

[Arathol]

Spot on about the weight. That said, there isn't much savings in weight with that combo, and it is carrying more stuff which takes up space. Not sure he wants a hatchet. Also seems like he is going to carry a replaceable blade knife with the "survival" knife. I think he wants to replace one tool for another, not with several.

There is a considerable weight savings over what the OP has. Just the Esee alone weighs 22oz, more then everything on my list. The Knives of Alaska combos have at least one knife and a hatchet sort of thing, some have a saw, and those combo sets can weigh at least the same as the Esee depending on which set.
He said "not interested in replaceable bladed knifes"
One smaller knife, one larger knife, and a light hatchet can do a lot if you know how to use them.

 

[NG VI]

Within reason, I don't think weight is ever your friend in a knife, unless it's going to be used as an impact tool most of the time.

 

[Sir Drop-em Flat]

The Benchmade Altitude is a small really light knife but this thing field dresses and butchers animals with no issues, and a Ka-Bar USMC they are some of the sturdiest knives out there

 

[UNBLF]

Not sure what you are saying. A "full Tang" that runs to the edges of the scales simply contains more steel in volume. than a stick tang that is smaller/thinner and
runs only through the center of the handle. Below is my Falkniven Micarta 3G full tang alongside my 3G F1 stick tang Thermorun handle. While the stainless bolster and the weight difference in scale materials, as well as the two rivets is an additional factor, I consider the biggest difference in weight; 7.0 oz for the Full Tang and 5.4 oz for the stick tang comes from the considerable difference in the amount of steel used. There is no difference in blade length or thickness between these two knives.

There is a reason why most military knives today use a stick tang and synthetics. USMC loads average 117 lbs and US Army loads average 119 lbs. Weight is a consideration.

As for balance, of course that is cruciual for any good knife and I am unaware of any stick tang knife sold that has a "balance" problem. In the kitchen knife world both full tang (German./French) and Japanese (stick tang) are popular among professional chefs, who readily recognize a difference in balance but find it not significant beyond personal preference in use. And we are talking blade lengths of 240-330 cm (9.4 inches - 12.9 inches).

I believe you kinda missed my point, missed a lot of my points.

1, I'm not sure if our definition of "full tang" are identical. By calling a knife "full tang" I also include "skeleton tang", which you can see the full tang exposed through the entire edges of the handle, but the inside of tang have milled holes / shapes to adjust weight. The knives on the right I, as well as most people on this forum, will also call them "full-tang".

2, Especially for kitchen knives, their "stick tangs" are usually much thinner than that in Thermorun F1, similar to a Kabar 1217. That, we usually call it "rat tail". It's commonly accepted that rat tails are inferior to full-tang in terms of overall toughness / reliability. Why is it so common in kitchen knives? Because they are kitchen knives. You don't pry with kitchen knives, nor would you survive with kitchen knives.

3, I do not have a micarta / bolster F1 so I cannot testify, however if you take your two F1s, and test the balance point on them, it's most likely they are identical. At least that's how real quality knife makers do things: Different versions of a same model should have same balance points.
Now let's think about it:
If, as you said, the blade length and thickness are identical, then the weight on the blade side should be identical.
And if, as you suggested, the full tang F1's additional weight should be on the handle side.
Then how come the two knives have identical balance points...? Impossible, right...?

Because just as shown in the above picture, a "full-tang" construction does not prevent the maker from adjusting handle weight by hollowing out the inner parts of the handle.

In my guess (again, I do not own a micarta F1 so I cannot testify), The weight difference of your two F1s are mainly due to the SS bolster, which leans more towards the blade side, thus allowing a heavier handle yet still same balance point. And I'd guess the full-tang on the micarta F1 is hollowed out, making it just heavier enough to offset the marginal shift of balance caused by the weight of SS bolster.

 

[RousingRabbles]

Why not go on Carothers website right now and pick up a DEK1 in AEB-L? It’s lightweight, I imagine would be good for processing game, and should be proficient for various camp/survival tasks. Edge retention won’t be quite as good as the Delta 3V, but it should be every bit as useful as an esee, and just as easy to sharpen. I just received one, so haven’t used it yet, but I’d imagine it could serve your purposes well.

 

[craytab]

There is a considerable weight savings over what the OP has. Just the Esee alone weighs 22oz, more then everything on my list. The Knives of Alaska combos have at least one knife and a hatchet sort of thing, some have a saw, and those combo sets can weigh at least the same as the Esee depending on which set.
He said "not interested in replaceable bladed knifes"
One smaller knife, one larger knife, and a light hatchet can do a lot if you know how to use them.

Whoops, looks like I miss read! Your combo looks great.

 

[KenHash]

I believe you kinda missed my point, missed a lot of my points.

1, I'm not sure if our definition of "full tang" are identical. By calling a knife "full tang" I also include "skeleton tang", which you can see the full tang exposed through the entire edges of the handle, but the inside of tang have milled holes / shapes to adjust weight. The knives on the right I, as well as most people on this forum, will also call them "full-tang".

Yes there are knives that use a skeleton tang. Not all "full tang" knives do, and the extent of skelonization varies among makers and models. Perhaps I should have stated "Exposed Tang" to be clear.

Fallkniven does not use a skeletonized exposed tang to by knowledge. The FK A1 weighs 12oz, the A1Pro (with bolster) weighs 12.4oz and the full exposed tang A1x
(below) weighs 13.4oz.

2, Especially for kitchen knives, their "stick tangs" are usually much thinner than that in Thermorun F1, similar to a Kabar 1217. That, we usually call it "rat tail". It's commonly accepted that rat tails are inferior to full-tang in terms of overall toughness / reliability. Why is it so common in kitchen knives? Because they are kitchen knives. You don't pry with kitchen knives, nor would you survive with kitchen knives.

True Kitchen knives aren't made to pry, but then neither are outdoor knives according to the makers. Outdoor knives will cut tougher harder mediums, but kitchen knives cut far more in volume on a daily basis. Historically a "full exposed tang" has rarely if ever been a necessity in sword making all over the world. In fact a greater weight distribution towards the back would work against the fast movements required in sword combat. The Buck 119, Cold Steel Trail Master, SRK, SOG S1 and Seal Series etc etc have all used intertnal "non-exposed" tangs with no issues.

3, I do not have a micarta / bolster F1 so I cannot testify, however if you take your two F1s, and test the balance point on them, it's most likely they are identical. At least that's how real quality knife makers do things: Different versions of a same model should have same balance point.

No, I have tested them. The balance point is further back slightly on the Micarta/full tang, as one would expect.

In my guess (again, I do not own a micarta F1 so I cannot testify), The weight difference of your two F1s are mainly due to the SS bolster, which leans more towards the blade side, thus allowing a heavier handle yet still same balance point. And I'd guess the full-tang on the micarta F1 is hollowed out, making it just heavier enough to offset the marginal shift of balance caused by the weight of SS bolster.

Yes that's a guess considering you don't have one, much less taken one apart to be certain.

In sumary, I find the stick tang version lighter than the "full exposed tang" version of the same model knife. That modern military knives (think Ka-Bar) have utilized stick tangs is an indicator of their durability. When you acquire a pair of knives that you can actually test compare please let us know.
Still not certain what exact point you are trying to make. That internal tang and exposed tang knives have no weight difference? That the exposed is more durable than the internal? For me these aren't some big questions that need to be debated and resolved.. But thanks for your opinions anyway.

 

[BladeMan]

Thin is in. Never understood why someone wants a thick pry bar that weights a ton carrying around.

Just an example of something that does not weight too much although full tang.
OAL is 273 mm / 10.7", blade is 150 mm / 5.9" and 3 mm / .118" thick.
Weight is 116 gr / 4.09 oz

 

[elasmonut]

All- I’m trying to lighten up my pack, currently hauling around an Esee 5 Rowan I believe which tips the scales at around 1lb.
I also carry knives of Alaska hunter combo.

I’m not interested in replaceable bladed knifes. Full tang only and fixed. I’m ok with carrying 2 knives as I understand they have different purposes.
Knife 1.) in the field game processing and skinning
Knife 2.) survival, camping, back up.
I understand strength and weight probably come hand in hand, but what is a good mix of rigidity and lightweight/comfortable?

Can I get both in one package understanding 2. Is a worst case scenario?

I’m not concerned with price tag, I’m not rich but willing to spend some coin if it’s worth it.
Get confused with fallkniven, reached out to Phil Wilson knives with no answer.

No china.

A 4-6" Victorinox butchers/boning knife, and a 10 -12" Tramontina machete.
Both purpose built, light, cheap, and replacable, beyond that your lookin for fancy or cool...which is why we're all here!

 

[elasmonut]

Nothing wrong with a full length hidden tang. They have less hot spots better balance and weigh less.

IMHO. Full width tangs are a fad. You tube has convinced everybody they are best and its just not true.

Its a knife not a froe.

Yep full tangs are like XXL condoms...more blokes buyin' 'em than needin' 'em!

 

[eveled]

A BK62 Kephart might suit your needs. Its full exposed tang

 

[Jsega51]

Thin is in. Never understood why someone wants a thick pry bar that weights a ton carrying around.

Just an example of something that does not weight too much although full tang.
OAL is 273 mm / 10.7", blade is 150 mm / 5.9" and 3 mm / .118" thick.
Weight is 116 gr / 4.09 oz

What’s the price for something like that? For the cost it may not be worth the 3-4oz weight saving over some of the other options presented here.

 

[BladeMan]

What’s the price for something like that? For the cost it may not be worth the 3-4oz weight saving over some of the other options presented here.

Probably not, no. On the other hand, if you want and can appreciate a handmade custom knife, that 3-4 oz weight saving is a nice extra. Along with the fact it will never rust ever.

 

[Jsega51]

Probably not, no. On the other hand, if you want and can appreciate a handmade custom knife, that 3-4 oz weight saving is a nice extra. Along with the fact it will never rust ever.

For sure, and yes I do appreciate a handmade custom, no doubt about that!

 

[craytab]

What’s the price for something like that? For the cost it may not be worth the 3-4oz weight saving over some of the other options presented here.

Probably not, no. On the other hand, if you want and can appreciate a handmade custom knife, that 3-4 oz weight saving is a nice extra. Along with the fact it will never rust ever.

If thin, full tang, light, and rust proof is your need but don't want the custom price, the Spyderco Waterway is a great outdoor companion.

 

[353]

I'd recommend a Field Knife or the Kephart.

That Kephart looks veeery classy...

 

[353]

and the full exposed tang A1x
(below) weighs 13.4oz.

F1x

 

[scdub]

Remember, when it comes to handle weight, balance is always of higher priority than total weight for any quality modern knife.

I’m a little confused by this statement. Do you mean the location of the balance point of the knife? If so, I’m aware that many people like a knife that balances near the guard, but on larger knives most people would prefer blade-heavy.

Do you mean handles shouldn’t be so heavy that the balance point is behind the index finger? I get that if so…