Need help on a WWII katana (lots of pics)

Knifemaker87

Knifemaker87

Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
1,073
hey everybody!
i just recived a sword as part of a trade involving a commissioned knife. the blade is kinda rough... but has alot of "promise" especially if i were to refile the blade.. or even re heat treat it and give it a hamon. but i dont know if i should.. is it better to leave it like it is? the blade is conpletely dull, and doesnt look like it was ever sharp.. and is VERY dull.. like what my blade look like before heat treat.

would it be sacrilege to re heat threat or repolish this blade? can i anneal it.. and straghten the blade.. file it.. and heat treat it? or is it better to save it as is?

all you sword smith's help would be greatly appreciated.. what is it that i have?
thanks so much!



here are pictures!
DSC02710.jpg

DSC02708.jpg

DSC02705.jpg

DSC02704.jpg

DSC02702.jpg

DSC02701.jpg

DSC02695.jpg

DSC02696.jpg

DSC02697.jpg

DSC02715.jpg


let me know what you think
thanks so much
~chris
 
Woah, I can't help you on the technical stuff, but that is an interesting piece of history. If it were me, I'd leave it. I may clean it up and possibly polish it, but I wouldn't re-heat treat it or anything like that.
 
Chris, I can't help other than to offer one piece of advice: do NOTHING with it until you have a positive id by someone who knows exactly what they're doing. It's certainly not one of the dime-a-dozen cheapo officers swords turned out during WW2, which were plain steel.
 
thanks for the help guys!
not touching it.. not till i find out what it is.. which is why i asked
thanks guys!
~Chris
 
Chris, what markings are on the tang of the knife? Can you give us some more shots of just the tang? This is not a plain Gunto as Mike mentioned. My amateur opinion is that it's a Chinese made sword.

The writing on the blade is Nakata Shouji, the name of the smith and the second marking is Showa-5 the year 1930. I don't know of any blades that have etching like this, especially not one that's this old. The kissaki also looks a little wrong to me.

You should really take this over to the SFI Nihonto forum for better info. I'd still like to see more of the tang and any kanji that might be carved into it.
 
That should say sword above, sorry. Also, I wanted to mention that you will rarely, if ever, see patterning like this on a nihonto sword, it looks etched to me. That would go along with the writing, but neither would be period for a Showa sword in my opinion. Again, my amateur opinion.
 
By the way, the rust on the blade looks a bit red, does it come off on your hands when you handle it?
 
What acridsaint said. Check it just to be sure but the absence of a hamon and the lack of a sharpend edge and the fact that it has been etched to show the patterning makes me also beleive that this is a chinese made sword. the patterning sort of resembles what the gassan smiths were doing but is not correct. also the mune machi and the ha machi are offset and of the thousand or so genuine swords that I had the pleasure of looking at in Japan last summer not one of the had etched blades or offset machi.
 
Hello Chris. I have to go with what has been said before. It is a chinese made copy of a katana. Check out some ebay listings under WWII militaria-japan and see what pops up. They seem to be flooding the market with them. Other than that I have not looked at one up close and personal. I would say have fun with it and see what turns up, with your skills it should be interesting.

Brion Tomberlin
Anvil Top Custom Knives
 
hey guys!
the picture shows the only marking on the tang.. sweeet! this is actually just what i wanted to hear.. (yeah the rust is new.. it comes off. and there were no other marks on the tang. so... nada.

i am thinking that i will completely redo it... anneal...straighten.. draw-file... heat treat.. polish.. then maybe mount it.. or let someone else do it. i am DEF gonna have fun with it.
thanks again!
~chris
 
Hi Chris, the fresh rust is usually a good sign that it's a "reproduction" if we can be so kind.

Please check with some other knowledgable folks (I highly recomend SFI) before tearing into it. There may be an off chance it's rare.

Good luck with the project.

Cap
 
Here's what I see:

ha-machi mune-machi don't line up, very rare on a normal sword, swords with this usually have a really nice habaki
missing yasuri(decorative file marks)
rust looks bogus(muriatic acid?)
nakago(tang) looks off to me, poor geometry
hada(grain) is a ridiculous, I'm sure it is mono-steel
hada and writing are etched in
writing is not engraved, also that writing would usually go on nakago
stamp looks like nonsense
fittings look like cheap castings with fake patina
I've never seen a saya like that either
kissake geometry and hada are off

I doubt there is anything to anneal or heat-treat...

Words have meaning.
 
Yes, Chris, I'm fairly confident it is one of those Chinese "Thousand Year Old Damascus Samaurai Swords" seen on ebay for $49.95. It is amazing how much work they put into them. The steel is usually non-hardenable, or just barely hardenable. Have fun with it.
 
If it's a knockoff then doing all that work to it won't be worth your time. When your done you'll still have a cheap knockoff. You can't polish a turd!
 
My sister got me one of those (she was so proud of the deal she had gotten!) I didn't have the heart to tell her it was c-wrap (it must have been some sort of ninja thing since it had a little pull out tanto in the end of the handle :D)
My stepdaughter wanted a sword for something and though it was cool so I let her borrow it 2 years ago, she doesn't realize that I will never ask for it back unless my sister is due to visit.

Good steel is cheap enough compared to the time I put into working it, that I will never actually do anything with the SamurEbay sword.

-Page
 
hey guys.. this isnt mono steel.. first off.. the patern isnt repeating.. plus.. there are two spots where this is a slight open layer. also.. in the tang you can see the patern even where it wasnt etched. but i agree the geometry IS off.. and all that.

so it wont harden? hmm thats too bad. i might be able to make some San mai with it as someone sugested.. casue it is very pretty.

thanks for the help yall!
~Chris
 
do a spark test on the butt of the tang to determine if it has enough carbon to harden
 
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