Need help selecting steel for first knife

smitty0331

smitty0331

Joined
Dec 5, 2006
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I'm going to be starting my first knife very soon(stock removal) , and I'm looking for suggestions as to what steel to use. I would like a harder steel, but one that weare well. I'm thinking maybe a carbon steel like A2 or 1095, maybe even O2. Does this sound about right? Any input would be extremely helpfull, I'm sure some of you seasoned makers will have some pearls of wisdom to pass on, and I'd love to hear them. Thanks in advance...JS
 
Are you going to have it professional heat treated? If not do you have access to a kiln, salt bath, or forge? What type of knife do you plan on making? Your answers will narrow down your options.
For a good starter steel my suggestion is 1084, I only started using it recently but I like it a lot. Its very easy to drill, grind, file, ect. 5160 is a good choice also. Many people suggest O1 but I prefer using other steels.

I'm definitely not a "seasoned maker" compared to many of the other makers here but I have some experience. :p

-Dan
 
I'm currently working on my first blade (stock removal with hand tools) and I got some 5160 from McMaster-Carr. It's nearly impossible to drill with my hand drill, before and after annealing my blank, even using cutting oil with Cobalt bits.

I don't know if this is typical of 5160, of all carbon steels, or I just got a bad piece.
 
Problem with a hand drill is most will not go slow enough and bits are not held rigid enough. If you know someone with a good drill press it might work a bit better. 5160 can be a PITA wen it comes to drilling if not annealed properly.
 
If you don't mind sending it out for heat treat (not very expensive) your options just blossom! A2, D2, 440C, ATS34, 154CM, CPMS30V, CPM154, CPMD2, RWL34, .... and lots more. All of these require an extended soak at precise temperature.

I'm a stainless guy. That doesn't fit everyone's philosophy, but there are incredible stainless performers out there, so, other than forging, I can't see why anyone would use a steel that is going to rust or tarnish if it's ever used. This will undoubtedly be followed by dissenting (and equally valid) opinions.

Given that bias, I would recommend 154CM. (or ATS34 if you are willing to risk inclusions - same alloy). 440C is cheaper, but when you are done, your knife is - well - 440C. The stuff is serviceable - no more or less. A piece of 154CM is going to cost you maybe $5 more - and then after 20 to 100 hours of work - you'll have a blade that will impress with it's performance. There are better, but the 'diminishing returns' thing kicks in.

154CM is as easy as any to file or grind and, knowing you are using something nice, you will do your best effort. Starting with a steel purchased only because it's cheap, is giving yourself permission to fail.

Rob!
 
I would suggest 1084. It is easy to work, takes a very good edge, and holds up well. It is the easiest steel to HT. It is cheap and readily available. Aldo Bruno sells it on the Knifemaking Supplies For Sale sub-forum.
Stacy
 
Rob!! You didn't tell me that when you sold me all that 01 and 1095:D

Seriously, if you want something that's fairly forgiving to HT, I'd go with 01. If you're going to send it out - 154cm is reasonably priced, and makes a very fine knife if you don't mind eating the extra cost if you mess up, go with CPM154 (I'm working with some CPM154 chef's knives that Rob HT'd and cryo'd for me as we speak:thumbup:).

That being said, I've got to get back at it,
Nathan
 
Beginers steels are 5160 and 1080. For more wear resistance go to 1095 or O-1.
 
I'm sort of with Mete on this one. If you're doing stock removal go with O-1 or 1084, If you're forging get some 1084 from Aldo and Mace or Kelly Cupples, doing your own heat treat is so simple on these steels, they are very forgiving, and if you are not using them in a corrosive environment like a kitchen will outperform fancy stainless without all sorts of high tech tomfoolery :D

-Page
 
Having said that, how would I go about HT'ing o1 or 1084? I'd really like to do it myself. My goal is to start with a decent, quality steel thats fairly easy to work with and make a few fixed blade utility knives. I'm not going to move on to another steel untill I have the first one mastered, at least that is my thinking. I'm going out today to try and find a Craftsman 2x42 sander. That will be my starter since it seemed to be the overall best recomended starter sander on the forum.
 
Well, I vote for 1080 or 1084, it'll be fine to heat treat at home. Folks already know that I'm not big on O-1 as a newbie steel. If you're hammering out your knives and you can get O-1 drill rod on the cheap, then maybe it'd be worth trying out.

If you're going to send your knives out, I'd go with something like 440C or ATS34. These are cheap and readily available. I think folks should start with less expensive steels and work into the complicated stuff later, when they are happy with their knives and sure they'll come out the way they want.

For the other poster - AFIK Paul doesn't do 1095, he only does air hardening steels.
 
I would go with 1095 or 1084 to start with. It makes great knives and heat treats nice in the home Knife Shop. :thumbup:
 
My understanding of 1095 is that it's a little fussy about temperature, soak times and quenching it quick to avoid pearlite, O-1 and 1084 you can heat up to just a little bit past nonmagnetic, hold them there for a few minutes, plunge point first in 130 degree f olive oil ( without hitting on the sides or bottom) hold it there for 5 minutes, bake it in a preheated to 425 oven for an hour and pretty much count on having a blade. Torch drawing the spine works to give a bit of extra toughness.

Oh yes, O-1 if you mess up your heat treat you can go back and try again after annealing

-Page
 
my vote is for 1084 or any 10xx steel as heatreating will be easy for someone just starting. when you get into steel that need soak time you run risks of not knowing and controling an even temp. i use alot of 5160 and soak it for 7-10 min at 1550 but if soaked at higher temps the edge will worp and burn. start simple and work your way up.
 
I suggest a simple carbon steel. And I suggest using only new drill bits, unless you know how to sharpen your own. All my pin holes are 1/8", and if I can't get through the steel with a newly sharpened bit, I use a carbide bit used for tile cutting with the Roto-Zip tool, available at Home Depot. It will go through a new file. Use gentle pressure, clear the hole frequently, and it is good to use a light oil like WD-40 for a cutting fluid.

Drilling your holes before heat treat is a little risky, because they might be in the wrong place when you're ready to put on the handle slabs.

I heat treat, then torch draw the whole tang, whether full tang or hidden tang. I heat all the way through the heat colors to grey, and run the colors into the ricasso. Relieves all the stresses from hardening, and usually will make the steel easier to drill. My experience with this is limited to carbon steels, and I think all of them will work well with this method.

First knife? Get an old file that is big enough,grind the teeth off so you can see clean, bright steel, clean all the old oil and grit from it, wash it thoroughly with a good dish washing liquid, then bake it in the kitchen oven at 425-450 degrees for an hour three times. (You might get to do this again if you don't stink the house up with the oil smell.)

Take a good look at the color of the oxide on the steel. You will need to remember this color so that you do not heat the steel past that color while grinding.

Then grind carefully, dipping frequently in water to keep from softening the steel.

This will make a good knife. Most of us old timers started making knives out of files. They are usually made of W-1, W-2, or something quite similar. They have about 1% Carbon, and are used for a lot of rough work. They will make tough knives that will hold an edge well, and will be easy to sharpen.
 
1084 is the steel that has the simplest HT. It is the eutectoid, so it has the lowest temperature, and being a simple steel, it does not require a soak time. You can build a simple forge, use coal, or use a torch. Heat it to a red heat ( if using a torch, make sure the entire edge is full red). Check with a magnet as it heats up. At light red color it will become non-magnetic (this is the curie point, or critical temperature). Heat it just a little hotter (about 100 degrees) and quench it in a medium speed oil quenchant. You can use peanut oil or a similar oil for this. Use about a gallon for best results.
When you do the quench stick the blade in just like you were stabbing it in. Tip first-straight in. Hold it still for a couple of seconds, then stir it around for about 10 seconds,then let it sit there for about one minute. Take it out and run a good file along the cutting edge. It should skate off like you were trying to file a piece of glass ( the blade is very brittle right now ,so don't bend or drop it!). That shows it got hardened fully. Wipe the oil off the blade and take it to the kitchen oven. Bake it at 375F for two hours. Take out, cool off for about five minutes ( until you can pick it up with your hands), and put it back in the oven for another two hours. It is now tempered. Finish the blade (avoiding heating the blade up too much when grinding (No Blue spots!).
Have fun, Stacy
 
I tell new folks NOT to use an old file for their first knife. Just because I did it for my first knife when I was 14 and it worked does not make it a good idea, in fact it is a bad idea. You can guess what the steel might be which may put you in the ballpark for heat treating, but you will have to undo all of the work that went into making it a good file before you can start making an OK knife, and you do not know if it has fractures etc.
Smitty0331, send me an email with your address as soon as you have finished reading the stickies on top of the main page labeled "newbies good info here" and I will mail you a small piece of 1 inch wide 1084 so you're not tempted to waste your time on mystery metal. If you like it, order more from Mace and Aldo

-Page
 
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