Need help with a guilt trip

Sorry for the cheap shots I threw out there on the forum guys, I just got irked a bit at the first personal attack leveled at oldschool -- a guy who put himself out there to get others' perspectives on a tough choice he had to make. My point was that, in my opinion, he shouldn't beat himself up over it because he tried. That's the best we can hope for in life, and sometimes we can't even get that. Therefore, it's my opinion that he didn't fail himself or the dog. Sorry about the Social Darwinism angle -- I could have made my point without such an analogy. :P Cheers all!
 
James0723,
While your views are appreciated, the antagonistic nature of your posts is not.
Discuss the topic, not the poster.....in a respectful manner.


I would be struggling with this too, if i were in this position.
If it were within my means and power, i would contact anyone i had to for outside help and advise. Heck, i might even go as far as pestering caesar milan for professional help. I'm of the opinion that you've given her a good home and loved her thus far....

Then again, I've worked in shelters and understand the cruel fact that some dogs are so damaged by cruelty that they can never recover and can never be rehabbed. We do our best to mitigate their situation, and somtimes thats all we can do. Somtimes it is best to give them some grace, a place and space and live with them and their problems. Sometimes it is more appropriate to be merciful and end a life that would otherwise be spent perpetually in utter fear and torment.

I cannot tell you what to do. These decisions are best made by those closest to the situation and are invested in them.
I can tell you that i myself would exhaust all avenues of help before throwing in the towel.
 
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How old is the dog ? If he/she can't
Live inside without Having accidents I can understand your frustration . IMO I don't think bringing the dog back to the shelter is the right or humane decision and
Maybe euthization is a better/kinder decision... I hate to recomend this but it's better than the dog living in a 3 x 4 cage the rest of it's life . I commend your efforts and generosity rescuing thus dog and it's not going to be an easy decision.

Edit : the cesar millan idea isn't bad either if he would take your dog into his compound !!
 
Thanks for all that have been dishing out the opposition to my decision. I needed some of it to becoming externally instead of internally balance needs to be achieved.
If you can make all of your decisions taking in only your perspective without having a wife or children to consider and you have never had to make a decision between 2 or more bad choices. Please remind me what that is like. I was still living at home and couldn’t vote the last time I was in that position.
The dog is not getting abandoned and is not going to a shelter. The dog is finding another home if I were legally able to have done this on my own I would have. Reading comprehension, give it some thought before we return you to your normal knee jerk emotional responses. Speaking of which the dog barely avoided an S3 situation about a week ago my loving wife and ground as hard as concrete saved me and the dog from making that poor emotionally driven decision. I’ve made the comment here before that I’d like to introduce the turd(s) that abused this dog to the blunt sides of my 20”AK that is impossible and wouldn’t change the present if it were.
Crap happens, some of us avoid the hard decisions and some of us make them own them and move on. Neither way is necessarily correct.
 
Good on you for having the guts to discuss it here.

Have you got a crate for it when inside? They normally won't make a mess in "their" crate. I have puppies sleep in one of these when inside:

DogCrate.jpg


The puppy is only allowed to roam free in the house after I have just seen it do it's business outside. When left alone (I'm in the shower for example, or at night) the puppy goes in the crate until it's house broken. The crate is next to my bed.

Maybe your Corgi needs to spend most of it's life in the crate, when indoors? You can have the crate in a spot where the dog can still see you.

Does the dog want to be around you generally?

Corgi's were allegedly bred from the Swedish Vallhund's in my avatar btw. Vikings brought the Vallhund's to the UK.

Well, not those actual Vallhund's, but ones like them. :)
 
To all:

I'm a former rescue volunteer, myself, and ordinarily, I have a short fuse with anything that might constitute "abuse." But I'm not prepared to level that charge at oldschool45. First off, his obvious feelings of conflict seemingly disprove the idea that he's cold or unfeeling, and the fact the has bloody well TRIED, for 7 whole years, to be a good "parent" to this dog says a lot for him. Conversely, James's very personal, mean-spirited pattern of character attacks and imprecations against oldschool's masculinity and humanity aren't consistent with the kind of loving person that an animal lover ought to be. In fact, his rants reek far more of self-promotion and bullying than of any meaningful attempt to help anybody, including the dog. So I'll offer my own opinion, thank you very much.

Oldschool: I understand not being able to get along with someone, be it human or animal, and with wanting to just cut your losses. But after 7 years of keeping this animal, I think that you're underestimating the job that you've been doing. I really don't see how the situation is hopeless if you've managed it that long... and in that, there is hope. That's the only insight that I can offer.
 
Before I say anything I want to put out there that I've worked professionally as a dog trainer and caring for dogs in a shelter environment for 2 years.

I think it's great that people try and rescue dogs, take them into their home and work with them to try and make them part of the family... BUT there are some cases of abuse that are simply never going to be trained past. I've worked with dogs that were unable to be handled by kennel techs and gave one man who thought he knew what he was doing a nice trip to the emergency room for reconstructive plastic surgery on his face. Even in cases that aren't quite so extreme there is a limit based off of what the individual family themselves are able to accomplish. Sometimes you think you have the know-how to be able to work through a dog's issues and you end up hurt and paying for it, a lot of the time though it's the dog who ends up paying for it.
No matter how well intentioned and meaningful your efforts have been they obviously have not worked to the extent you want them to. Is the dog better off now than she was when you got her? It sure sounds like it, so you have had a positive influence in the dog's life but that doesn't necessarily mean you have been taking steps in a positive direction and while obviously well intentioned they might not have exactly been in the right direction for your specific dog. It sounds like she is outcast and not part of your pack (which is obvious... you said it yourself) secluding her further by crating her is probably not the greatest answer.
Without actually seeing the dog and observing her specific behaviors and body language when she's acting up I can't tell you what to do but I want to go out and help your dog. Hiring a dog trainer or professional of some sort can be expensive, what I would advise doing... and it might not work but it's worth a try. Go around to a couple of the no kill shelters in your area, look for ones specifically that run 24 hour care for the dogs if you can find them, (they wont advertise this but ask at the front if they have kennel techs or vets on staff 24 hours a day) find out if you can talk to the owner or person who runs the show (very likely NOT the person at the desk but they might be able to help) tell them your story, explain what has been going on with the dog and how you are at your wits end and ask them if they have someone that has a good touch with dogs like that who they think might be able to help you. Come back at their shift when they work, try and catch them right before or after their shift if possible because they will likely be very busy and explain your story, ask them if they have any advice for you and if they could come to visit and work with your dog for 30 minutes to an hour a week to try and help you out. I think you might be surprised at how effective it could be if you find the right person. It's just a matter of being able to find the right person to be able to do it.
 
Steven, crate training is a good technique if used correctly. By correctly I mean that the crate is not a “negative” place for the dog. You make it a safe positive place for the dog to be. Both of mine head for the crate when they are overwhelmed and they don’t have to be forced in to it. I helped my neighbors get a crate and train their now (very well behaved) 7 month old American Staffordshire terrier with one.
I’m not going to post a novel here but those who know the “full story” understand why. Karda was pretty close to the mark with this comment “the cruel fact that some dogs are so damaged by cruelty that they can never recover and can never be rehabbed.” The best term I can use to describe this dog is neurotic. It had to have been a man (using the term loosely) who abused her because her behavior towards men is completely different than towards women or girls. Pixie has run a good race on recovering. I lack the environment and ability necessary for her to finish. Instead of keeping her around for my own selfish reasons I’m letting her go so she has a chance to finish. Did I wait too long to reach that conclusion? Maybe but time will tell.
Nicholas my wife’s co-worker works breed rescue for Pit Bulls and her comments pretty well mirror yours.
 
My guess is that if this dog came from a breed-specific "rescue" organization (e.g. as opposed to a shelter) that they would take the dog back no questions asked, or at least no guilt applied. They are committed to being "saints" to these animals and putting the well being of the dog above all else.

I had an Australian Shephard from a rescue group that my wife didn't want me to train (wanted it to be "her" dog)...since he never learned to come, etc. so well I held it against him for a long time and pretty much just avoided interacting with him and absolved myself of responsibility for him. Even though at some point like years after the fact I'm sure that she wouldn't have minded if I trained him (they kinda dropped out of obedience school), but I still held the grudge. It took a willingness for me to change my attitude for me to develop a relationship with "Skip". I pretty much excluded him from most of my activities (e.g. didn't willingly take him along places that I was going "alone" as the only person - we have 3 other dogs). Whenever he made a mess (like when he had diareah) it was pretty much assumed that my wife would clean it up if we were both home, but when I was the only one home I had to lock down my brain as much as my nostrils and essentially just robotically clean it up without thinking to avoid getting mad.

Ultimately I felt guilty about him not being part of the family and slowly started including him when I took the other dogs out. He had to walk on a leash, while I let the other dogs run free while we walk (they have learned to walk at my side upon request or just stay near me when walking in the neighborhood and run totally free in the woods). He had to stay on a leash partially because he "didn't listen" and partially because he would end up with a gimpy leg when I let him run free (we belived it to be some sort of sprain/strain that got aggrivated by running). After several months of walking with me every morning he walked on that leash as freely as the other dogs roamed around - there was never any tension on the leash and we pretty much "walked as one".

Then Skip, who was well housebroken and only had accidents under understandable circumstances, started peeing in the house, including once a giant "puddle/soak" that I discovered in the middle of our bed right before we were going to bed. I was livid and slept on the couch that night, but pretty much kept my mouth shut and didn't say/do anything I would regret. Turns out the dog had cancer really bad that several "regular vets" were unable to diagnose and that Skip was likely in some pretty severe pain most of the time. He died shortly after we started treatment for the cancer. Remembering how smoothly he walked on the leash with me (much better than the other dogs who are not used to walking on a leash) and recalling seeing his tail wag on those morning walks are a source of peace for me now.

I don't know if this story makes any sense or has anything to do with oldschool's but regardless - if you can't live with the dog take it back to the rescue group.
 
oldschool45 said:
Steven, crate training is a good technique if used correctly.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, my dogs love the crate, it's always full of toys and treats, and is a safe place they can go and rest, while still seeing the rest of the pack.

It can't be used for punishment, as I don't ever punish a dog, never even "correct" them. Not that correction doesn't work, it does of course, but positive reinforcement works better and is more fun for all involved. If I see a puppy start peeing on the carpet I quietly and gently pick it up and put it outside were it's supposed to pee, then reward it.

I think that you can't teach a dog not to do something, their brains don't work that way. Instead of teaching it not to pee on the carpet, you have to teach it to pee on the grass or wherever. Instead of not jumping up to greet you, train it to sit to greet you etc.

Obviously your problem is a dominance/possession one and it sounds like you must have tried everything but maybe Pixie was already too damaged to ever fit in well, no matter what you did.

Good luck with whatever you choose, it's an unpleasant situation either way sadly.
 
Some years ago I had to move for work and couldn't bring my dog Rainbow with me so we had to find a new home for her. Had her for 7 years when I lived on a farm. Wish I could have kept her. If things work out that you can keep your dog, great, if not, we are here for you. I know how hard it can be. Good luck!
 
I have been doing volunteer work with rescue dogs for the past 9 years (I am not saying that to mean that I am an expert or anything like that) I understand and agree with a little of what everyone has said
I have no doubt that Old school cares about and loves the dog – he could have just dropped it off at the local pound knowing it would probably be put to sleep (a lot of people would have done that) instead he came here asking for help . I think that alone would be good enough reason not consider him uncaring.

While I agree with a lot of what James 0723 said about responsibility to a dog when you adopt it. I don’t think I would slam anyone who has cared for a dog for a long time and it isn’t working and they are trying to find it a new place – like I said a lot of people would have just dropped it off at the pound to be put down

j3jymann has some good ideas too – and I know what he means when he said
“BUT there are some cases of abuse that are simply never going to be trained past.”

I have personal dealt with a couple that were so damaged that try as we might they could not be made sociable or behave anywhere near manageable. my Dog Princess the one in my picture was a bait dog from a pit bull fighting ring and I was lucky that we didn’t have those problems – mainly she was scared all the time and would have nightmares every other night I would wake up and she would be crying like she was being hit or kicked and I would have to wake her up and let her know she was safe – her nightmares are down to 2 times a week – that took three years


I think it is great we have people involved in rescue here at the forum

So I want to say good for you Oldschool for not just dropping the dog off somewhere to be put down and trying to do what you think is best for the Dog – I think that everyone here would want what is best for the dog .
I hope that you can get the help you need


Blessings to you and yours – Eric
 
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