Need help with ferric chloride (pictures fixed)

[Laredian]

Greetings,

I am a long time lurker, but I very rarely posted on this forum, I just tried to soak up all the awsome information that gets shared here.

I am an aspiring maker from Austria and I wanted to ask a couple of questions. I would be very thankful for any tips, suggestions and criticism.

Right now I am working on a full tang bowie knife. It is made from 80CrV2, is 4mm thick at the spine and was hardened to approximately 58-59hrc. The blade is flat ground and has a sharpened clip.
I hand sanded the flats of the blade with a 320grit and the primary bevel and the clip with 500grit.

It is not the first knife I have ground but one of the first I am somewhat happy with. I am really trying hard to make it as tight and clean as possible since it is a gift to a very close friend.

What I am struggling with is this: I want to make the transition between the flat of the blade and the primary grind more prominent. I want to do this to give the flat of the blade a more rugged look in contrast to the satin finished primary bevel.
My idea was to etch the knife in ferric chloride and then only sand the primary bevel and the clip back to 500grit. It that a feasable idea?

Also regarding the ferric chloride: I have a bottle that is a 40% solution I think. Can I use that as it is or do I have to dilute more. Also how long should I etch the knife to get a good, dark and consistent oxide layer?

I will try to add a photo of the knife...I apologise in advance for the potato quality, but I do not own a decent camera. (also how do I best upload photos on this forum?)

Also I hope my english is comprehensive, since I am not a native speaker.

Best regards

 

[A.McPherson]

You could paint the areas you don't want etched with a lacquer like fingernail polish to try to save yourself some sanding... I'm not positive it would work, but it might.
you should dilute your acid as well, the 40% will etch it quickly so if you want to have more control then dilution is the solution!

nice knife by the way! looking good!

 

[Tom Lewis]

Nice looking knife, and your English is very easy to understand. I have never tried what you wish to do so can't offer any advice.

 

[JTknives]

There is nothing wrong with doing what you want. You will need to use a hard backer on your sand paper so you don't wash out the line. Your ferric chloride is fine, 40-42% is the industry standard and called "Baume Solution". You mix that with water in a 3:1 ratio for Damascus but you could try less water if you want a more corse finish. With Damascus we are looking for a very fine even etch. Just remember if you etch really deep then you are going to have a good bit of sanding on your hands. You can color the edge bevels with a black permanent marker (Sharpie) and that will resist the etching. That's what I would try first if I was you, no reasion to make more work for your self then needed. Good luck

 

[Laredian]

Thank you all very much for you kind words regarding the knife and for all suggestions.

JTknives : I will try using the sharpie trick, thanks a lot. Is one minute in the acid a good starting point in your experience? What I am basically getting at: is one minute already in the range of a deeper etch that you mentioned?

Also maybe a stupid question, but what do you all use to store your ferric chloride? I haven't quite found a longer container that I like for etching blades that can also be closed when finished. (a piece of PVC pipe perhaps....or something along those lines?) Just asking in advance, because I don't intend to make a huge mess in my small workshop, I'd rather use what smarter people came up with that works.

One more thing I was trying really hard and not getting quite right: I mentioned that the clip is sharpened...well it is, but not quite. It was ground to almost zero, I then worked my way trough the sandpaper grits to get it to a zero, stopping at 500.
Now, it probably is sharp enough for that famous back-cut, but it won't shave hair or cut paper. My question is this: is that the case because the angle at which I ground the clip is rather steep, or do I need to do more hand sanding at higher grits? (or both?)

Best regards and thank you again for sharing your knowledge

 

[tmerkl]

I keep mine in a tall Nalgene type water bottle. But then, I only etch slip joint blades. JT, are you saying all I need to use is a sharpie as a resist?

 

[Salem Straub]

You could etch in diluted ferric chloride as suggested, and then finish it even more black and durable by etching in deathly strong instant coffee... that works great for carbon cores in san mai, and even for blackening whole blades. Or you could parkerize it, which is the best most durable black of all. Any way you do it, it shouldn't be too hard to sand the clip and bevel clean again if you wish.

 

[Brian77]

You could etch in diluted ferric chloride as suggested, and then finish it even more black and durable by etching in deathly strong instant coffee... that works great for carbon cores in san mai, and even for blackening whole blades. Or you could parkerize it, which is the best most durable black of all. Any way you do it, it shouldn't be too hard to sand the clip and bevel clean again if you wish.

That coffee idea I will remember. Following an etch with ferric chloride.

 

[Laredian]

So I gave it a try. I etched the knife in ferric chloride (3:1) and it turned out terrible. I probably did not degrease the knife correctly. So I said what the hell and tried a mustard-forced patina....which looked terrible also.

Also now there were some tiny black spots on the primary bevel (from the mustard i assumed) that were really deep, so I sanded those out with 320 and then back with 500, which really, really sucked.

Then I etched it again in ferric chloride and sanded the primary bevel and clip back to 500 (which did not take very long) and this is what it looks like now:

The line is not as crisp as I'd like it to be, but that I guess also has to do with the fact that the blade is 4mm thick and flat ground, so the transition between the flat of the blade and the primary bevel is not as sharp as a hollow grind would produce. I guess if I had used thicker stock, the line would be sharper.

Also I did not try the trick with the instant coffee that salem mentioned. Is it worth giving that a shot still?

 

[Laredian]

Ok so one last thing I wanted to show off:

As I said the etched part looked fine in the end, but it still bugged me...I wasn't satisfied. So I tried it again and it turned out great (in my opinion)

The transition between flat and primary bevel looks better and there is more of a texture going on. This is how I wanted it to be from the start.
Thanks again for all the help, tips and suggestions.

Now off to making a handle!

Also I would be honored if you told me what you think of the blade now that it is finished.

Best regards

Edit: so apparently Photobucket doesn't feature free 3rd party hosting anymore unless you pay, they did this without any notice. Kinda sucks, but the picture should be showing again

 

[the possum]

Your blade looks awesome! Your friend should be very honored. I would have never guessed that your are a beginner.

The line is not as crisp as I'd like it to be, but that I guess also has to do with the fact that the blade is 4mm thick and flat ground,

I've had trouble with that, too. I gave up on sandpaper, and now I use fine ceramic sharpening stones. The stones do not squish or bend like paper does, so it's easy to keep the transition line perfectly crisp.

I wish I could speak another language as well as you are doing with English. I know a few words in German, but never became fluent.

 

[Laredian]

Thank you very much for the kind words.

I finished a knife up that is the same model as the one I showed of before (the clip is just a little bit broader). I wanted to show that knife off, since it is the second knife I have finished and the second handle I have ever made an I am quite proud of the finished piece to be honest.

I hope you can identify something, the pictures are again very crappy, apologies for that.

Best regards