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TripleSKnives

TripleSKnives

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Oct 22, 2015
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I am a fairly novice knife maker and have been working with 1084 with fairly good results. I am wanting to take the next step to something that is a little more corrosion resistant. I was originally considering D2 as I will be getting a heat treat oven and quench plates by July hopefully. I was told by another more experienced knife maker that D2 is best if used with Cryo but I will not have that capability anytime soon. I can't afford to spend tons of money on the super steels but hoping for something in the mid range between 1084/1095 and S35VN or the like. I really like D2 after my experiences with it over the years but have been kinda leery about it after being told it really needs Cryo. Currently I only have a propane forge and large toaster oven for my heat treat if that matters any.

What would be a good steel that is fairly corrosion resistant but not overly expensive. All suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you
Stephen
 
You could use whatever you want and send it out for heat treat. All of the stainless steels are going to be out of your capacity to heat treat it sounds. AEB-L is relatively inexpensive and an excellent performer but did also be cryo treated.
 
kuraki said:
You could use whatever you want and send it out for heat treat. All of the stainless steels are going to be out of your capacity to heat treat it sounds. AEB-L is relatively inexpensive and an excellent performer but did also be cryo treated.
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Even with a digital oven?
 
If the oven you're buying is capable of the higher austentizing temperatures the more complex steels need: 1750-2000 f, then you'll be able to harden them, but most require sub zero or cryogenic treatment to get the most performance out of them. AEB-L without cryo makes a good knife, it just leaves some performance on the table.
 
TripleSKnives said:
Even with a digital oven?
Click to expand...

I do My knives mostly from stainless steel and no one is made with cryo. Yes, they are not as hard as it could be but they work good. I usually use Bohler N690 or N695 and they NOT require cryo.
Never had problem with them. :thumbup:
 
If you get an oven you can always use 440c or AEB-L. Both are cheap and you can do without cryo. You can do a subzero treatment with dry ice and denatured alcohol instead of cryo on the CPM154.
 
Subzero is relatively cheap. Before I had a dewar, I would cut out about 10 stainless knives, and spend an afternoon heat treating with the dry ice/acetone mix. It worked out to about $2.00/ blade.
 
Thanks guys for the suggestions! Looks like I have some more research to do before I make my decision.
 
Another thing about all of these air/plate quench steels, you'll need stainless tool wrap or the high austentizing temperatures will really give you some scale/decarb to deal with.
 
Yeah I planned on that just didn't want to go spending a ton of money on a steel that I'm not comfortable with yet as well as still honing my skills.

These are some of the steels I've been contemplating as of late
O1
154CM (not cpm)
52100
Aeb-L
And maybe a couple others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Personally, I heat treat my own basic carbon steels, but send the stainless and more complex steels out to Peter's. I doubt I'll ever be able to do it as cheap as what it cost to send them a handful of blades. Factor in the cost for the stainless wrap, the dewar, the LN, and the extra wear and tear on the oven, and it doesn't seem like you can save much (if anything) doing it yourself these days. Now, if you can get a cheap source for LN, find a good deal on a dewar, and you just need to do a few every once in a while, that may change things a bit. Dry ice may also be an option (doesn't get cold enough for the best results in some steels, but decent enough in others), but even that can be cost prohibitive in some areas.

Also consider the convenience and near guaranteed results from outsourcing vs a home setup. Not that a home setup isn't convenient in a sense, but if you've got other things you could be working on, it doesn't hurt to be waiting on the mailman vs. an oven timer. ;)
 
I guess I should admit that I am one of those people who prefer to do things myself if it is possible. Ive looked at heat treat services and for the amount of blades that I produce currently (1-2 a month now that I am back at work) it would not be beneficial for me to go that route cost wise but would be much easier on the other hand.

Ultimately I am hard headed and when I get something in my mind to achieve its hard for me to let it go. Basically I want to choose a steel that is a little more involved when it comes to heat treat that I can do in my shop (best case scenario without sub-zero) to create a little nicer blade. Or am I pissing in the wind??? :confused:
 
You have a lot of options to step up from 1084 that you can heat treat yourself with excellent results without cryo. It's the stainless part that really kicks things up a notch.

80CRV2, W2 (especially if you try for hamon), O1, 52100...there are more but all of these will outperform 1084 in almost every way, and are not as expensive or involved in heat treating as the CPMs or high end stainless steels. And again, AEB-L without cryo isn't bad it's just not as good as it could be.

If I were you I would ge a bucket of Parks 50 and start working with those steels I listed.
 
i've had great results with O1 with similar setup to yours. I was hesitant to outsource heat treatment as well, as I really wanted to be the one that did everything start to finish on a knife. However, my desire to try some super steels eventually won out, and I found someone who would do them. The results were awesome, and really only made me more resolved and spurred me to save for a heat treat oven. I will say, I did mess with some other steels like 1095 and W2 that were out of my ideal heat treat capacity, and I made a few things that looked good, but knowing in the back of my mind the hardening was sub par made me much less satisfied, and those knives sit in a box somewhere.
 
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Once you get into steels like 3v and z-wear, LN becomes much more needed. So far, z-wear and 3v are the only steels I've used that show a difference in final Rc# with cryo vs. subzero.
 
Thanks guys for what its worth I have a bucket of Parks AAA that I use for my 1084 and have read that is a good quench for O1. I happen to have a little O1 for some reason so may give that a shot first. If not what Im looking for I may go the AEB-L route. Too many options...
 
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That will work for those and 52100 or 80CRV2. The only reason I recommend Parks 50 is that my experience there is no ill effect from quenching slower steels in it, but you won't get the faster steels to harden properly in the slower oils. W2, 1095, Hitachi color, etc.
 
That makes complete sense. I may get some of that to have on hand anyway. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
kuraki said:
That will work for those and 52100 or 80CRV2. The only reason I recommend Parks 50 is that my experience there is no ill effect from quenching slower steels in it, but you won't get the faster steels to harden properly in the slower oils. W2, 1095, Hitachi color, etc.
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Be cautious, warp is more likely, as is cracking, although that is pretty rare. You need to temper right away if the quench is too fast.

Warren
 
I temper right away regardless. I've only experienced more warp than expected with 1084.
 
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