Need help with the first knife project!

C

chained1

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
4
Hello everyone!
This is my first post here, and I'm very glad that I will now be able to participate in
discussions that, until now, I was just observing.

I've been interested in knives for years, but I never actually built one myself.
I don't have tools and experience, but I guess everyone was starting like this.
I couldn't find a knife that I would really like, so after noticing what services
David from Great Lakes Waterjet was offering I thought I'd design something
myself. I decided that the blank should be cut out of D-2 tool steel, and David
recommended Paul Bos for heat treating. The problem is that I live in Poland
and false edges should be grinded and blade sharpened before heat treating,
and it doesn't make much sense to send it to Poland for finishing, then to US
for heat treating, and back to Poland. David suggested that I asked here if
anyone in the US could help me and finish the blade(grinding false edges,
sharpening, heat treating, maybe satin finish). So if anyone here helps me with
it, the blank would just go from David to the person that would "refine" the blank
for me, and then to Poland.
If I had the tools and know-how, I could do more myself, but right now I'm a total
knife making newbie, so I'll make a kydex sheath, and micrata handle myself.
Except for the design, it's the most I can do.

I'm attaching the current version of the design - it's not final yet, but it's almost there.

recurve-drop-point.png


Cheers
Casper
 
Casper, Welcome!

I like your design, and congratulations on deciding to make yourself a knife. There are many good makers here who I am sure will be able and prepared to lend a hand.

I'm sure you've read it, but there's a great "newbies" sticky that's valuable to everyone, newbie or not. Check it out if you haven't already.

Please keep us posted as you work on your project.
 
Welcome to BF.
For me to find solutions on supplies, steel and heat treatment has been real problem here in Turkey. I also begun with D2 to make knives (as it is the most available blade steel here, and cheap). At first I searched for professional HT companies in my country and found too many. I decided to HT myself and invested some for HT equipment but it was very possible to outsource HT.

I suppose you may find a HT company with small salt bath equipment, they will be glad to work with you. I found some shops, they were heat treating small batches of steel or small tools. They are also experts in D2 as it is most widely used material...

You mat try to shape steel with files and sandpaper and sent it to a HT shop....

Good luck with it. Feel free to ask questions. You are in safe hands here :)
 
Casper.

What access to tools do you have in Poland?

The best way to learn the art of Grinding, is to practice. Of course, before you butcher a $50 piece of D2, I would recommend refining your knife design, and test it in wood so you can make sure it fits, and feels like something you will actually want to use in the field for hours at a time.

If you have access to a few common woodworking tools, you should be able to cut out your blade's profile, shape a handle, and possibly even practice some bevel grinding in wood. You'll get a better idea of what your finished product will look and feel like.

When I start designing a blade, I always start on paper, then I make a photocopy of that, cut it out, glue it to a piece of wood, and cut out the profile with a bandsaw. (you can either use a thicker piece and then remove material from the blade section, or use a thin piece, and add handle slabs to get an accurate feel.) Shape the handle with a belt sander and/or pocket knife, rasp etc. A Dremel tool works pretty well if you don't have other options.

If you don't have power tools, you can get by with a small coping saw to cut out your profile shape. (better to use thinner stock with that method)

Then just glue on some handle slabs and shape them for the best fit in your hand.

It's best to use a harder, tough wood like hickory so you can play with it and not be afraid of breakage. However, I've used clear white or yellow pine with success (it's a little easier to work with)

When you're ready to start work on the steel, since it's a learning experience, just take your time, You can get the job done, even with a "Polish Milling machine" (excuse the joke, I couldn't resist). My teacher made his first knife with a couple of files. It took him a week, but it turned out alright.

Heat treat is definitly an issue, but I can't help but think that there must be some tool and die machine shop in poland that could accommodate you.

If you have more questions, just ask. There are many simple tricks for getting started, that don't always seem obvious to a beginner. You'll save a lot of time and energy if you just pester and prod those of us who have been there, and done that.

Good luck
 
If i were you i would get the blank thats your having cut out sent strait to you buy a 1x42" belt sander you can get one for cheap on the internet or tool store for around $100 get a coulple belts in different grit sizes(60-400), some sandpaper asst grits, and a couple of files. And you will need a drill some good cobalt drill bits in the size of your pins or what ever your going to use to hold the handle on with. Then grind the blade yourself and drill your pin holes and laynyard hole if you want one, and find another knifemaker or a metal shop near your area and send it out for heat treating locally. But if you want my opinon dont use D2, get yourself some 0-1 tool steel thats annealed precision ground and do the heat treating yourself. theres plenty of links on the internet to tell you how or just ask here in another thread its preety simple w/ most simple carbon steels.

Hope this helps

Daniel S
 
medannyboyy said:
If i were you i would get the blank thats your having cut out sent strait to you buy a 1x42" belt sander you can get one for cheap on the internet or tool store for around $100 get a coulple belts in different grit sizes(60-400), some sandpaper asst grits, and a couple of files. And you will need a drill some good cobalt drill bits in the size of your pins or what ever your going to use to hold the handle on with. Then grind the blade yourself and drill your pin holes and laynyard hole if you want one, and find another knifemaker or a metal shop near your area and send it out for heat treating locally. But if you want my opinon dont use D2, get yourself some 0-1 tool steel thats annealed precision ground and do the heat treating yourself. theres plenty of links on the internet to tell you how or just ask here in another thread its preety simple w/ most simple carbon steels.

Hope this helps

Daniel S
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about this. O1 is very hard to DIY HT steel without proper equipment. I HT D2 about 4 years and with even with a good temp. controllable kiln I am afraid to HT O1 and mess up the blades I spent hours. To suggest a steel requiring a good soak is not a good novice advice.

Casper, if you ever want to HT it yourself stick with relatively easy to buy and easy to HT steels first (not requiring long minutes of soak and not requiring a good HT oil) , like 1084, 1075, even 1060 for bigger knives. If chromium, vanadium etc alloys comes into play the steel requires longer soak times, and hence you need some kind of temp. control. If you will outsource HT, D2 is well known steel in industrial use and you will easily find some specialist to HT it nearby, also it is a superb blade steel if HT'ed correctly.
 
I like the knifes design, but the handle looks problimatic. Your going to want to make it out of wood, or clay first to make sure its comfy and safe. looks like you may want to put a little guard on it. Also, your not going to want to do a recurve for your first knife.

You may also want to rethink getting your knife cut out and ground by somebody else. Wheres the fun it that? If you make a knife yourself it will have your soul in it.
 
Casper send me a pm tell you who and where in Poland you will help. D2 steel is easily available in Poland, I give you knifemaker who cut you blank , and will help the whole process.
Where you live in Poland?

Pozdrawiam
 
ddavelarsen - I've read some of the info in that thread before registering here. I didn't
go through all of it, but just selected stuff that was most interesting for me(I didn't read
anything about forging - I don't think that's my cup of tea).

DeepEnd80 - I have access to some basic tools - hand saw, sand paper, dremel.
I don't even have a proper drill(not to mention a drill press) - I should get a new one
I guess.

I've made a cardboard model of this knife - it was quick and easy to make(print it out,
use double layered tape to attach to cardboard, cut it out - easy), and it really helped me
to refine the shape of the handle. Now, even though it's just a cardboard, it feels like it's
glued to my hand, even when I hold it really gently. I've done this before starting this
thread so all the corrections to the tang profile are included in the version that you can
see in this thread.

galadduin, medannyboyy - choosing the right type of steel wasn't an easy choice,
but I want you guys to know that I didn't choose at random. I'm a bit sentimental, and
the fact D-2 was used in the WWII era, and is still good enough to give modern steels
run for their money makes it a real treasure in my eyes. It's also "semi-stainless"
which, I think, makes it a great material for survival/hunting knife. I see it as a compromise between high carbon steels and stainless(It's a huge simplification
though).

Munky88 - I don't like guards, but I get your point, I'll move the cutting edge further
from the handle. I am aware that it's not the most simple knife, but it's my dream knife,
I can't do anything about it! I'll make a thicker model of the handle, and check how it fits
my hand.
I'll have fun as long as I'm going to make even the smallest part of this knife.
I'll worry about having a knife with a soul when my skills permit that.

gpwknives - Thanks man! I'll definitely send you a PM!


Cheers
Casper
 
Alright you expert grinders.

I think we need to explain to Casper, and myself, the most efficient method for grinding a blade with a concave/convex (Kukri profile like Casper's design)

I've found that getting to an inside corner is darn near impossible with a belt grinder. (I'm guessing that the secret is to use a convex platen)

Let's hear some input from the masters.

Jared
 
I just re-read my post and came off a bit harsh. I just meant that its fun to hold something you made yourself. It will certainly be a pretty knife, and i expect to see pictures when its done.

I know that Dan Koster gets his semi-production knifes cut out by waterjet, ground somewhere, heat treated, and then sent to him for finishing. May want to ask him where he gets them ground. He has his own forum under makers.
 
I'll post pictures as soon, as I get this project started. I hope it'll be pretty soon!
If I'm lucky I might finish it before my friend comes back from Norway. We're planning
a little trip together, and this would be a great way to test the knife!

Thanks for your help guys!
Casper
 
Welcome to BF Casper! If this is going to be your first knife you would be better off to use some of 1095 CRA steel for the job. It is one of the best steels for a using knife. If you are looking for some supplies for making knives, you can get most of them on my site below. I know this will help get you on your way. Most knife makers on here will help you with some good tips.

Have a great Thanksgiving Dinner and a blessed day. :thumbup:
 
Thank you for your support Mr. Barkes!
Before choosing D-2 as a preferred material for my knife I was also considering Hitachi ATS-34,
CPM series steels, and 1095 CRA.
I've noticed that every knife maker has his own favourite steel type. Every knife maker will say
that their favourite steel type is the best for this and that, but I think that every steel type has
it's advantages and disadvantages, and no choice is perfect. It's just a matter of preference,
and getting used to a particular steel type - thus understanding how to work with it in the most
efficient way.
I don't think that D-2 is a perfect choice, but I don't think that it's the worst choice I could
have made.

Whenever I try to consider alternatives, I always eventually find myself deciding that D-2 is a
better choice(for me), so maybe it's just that this material suits me better than others?
And hey! isn't that the best reason to go with this particular type of steel?

There are some many types of steel to choose from, and so many potentially "good choices",
and I don't think that it would be very fortunate if this turned into a discussion about types
of steel - this kind of discussion could go on forever.

I've decided to go with knifekits.com for my supplies - I will order a knife blank for my friend
from them anyway, so I might as well place a bigger order.

I really am grateful for any input in this thread, I hope that I didn't offend anyone, and I'm sorry if I did.

Cheers
Casper
 
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