Need info on a specific Blackjack - Urgent

S

Springer45

Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
50
I just passed on what is to me the best fixed blade I ever handled. It was a Blackjack, not sure if that was the name or model. The salesperson said it's as close to a Randall as you can get without buying a Randall. I am not familiar with the maker but it seemed well built. It had dark micarta handle material and a second guard between the index and middle finger. Blade was satin, not sure of steel, just a hair over 5". Price was discounted to about $120. No sheath. Is it worth the money? Should I head back now before it disappears?
 
Hi Springer45:

This blurb below is from New Graham:

I have a Blackjack, with finger groves and the same blade. If it was me, I would buy it.

Best regards.

"Blackjack Model 5 Micarta With Sub Hilt

* Micarta Handle
* With Sub Hilt
* 1095 Cryo Steel
* Leather Sheath

Our Online Price.....$135.00

SOLD OUT"
 
This it? If it is then your price of $120 is good even if it is missing the sheath. The traditional Blackjack style knives are very nice and well made, Many are very collectable, I would buy it.

nu5submic1.jpg


Gary007 said:
post some pictures of it if you can....
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Got me curious now about these knives... Can't seem to find one on the internet..... Model 5?

NGK-Webmaster said:
This it? If it is then your price of $120 is good even if it is missing the sheath. The traditional Blackjack style knives are very nice and well made, Many are very collectable, I would buy it.

nu5submic1.jpg
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Ken Warner's Blackjacks seem to be much better than Stewarts. I'd grab one. Wish Ken Warner would speed up prodo on the 7"
 
Blackjack was the company started by Mike Stewart, who now owns Bark River Knife and Tool Company. The original Blackjack company went out of business several years ago, and Ken Warner bought the rights to the name and is now producing new knives under this name.

With regard to the original Blackjacks, two of thier most popular models were the Model 1 and the Model 5, which bore a significant resemblence to the Randell models. They were made out of A-2 tool steel, and were quality knives.

There is a Blackjack forum over at www.knifeforums.com, where you can get info on old and new Blackjacks. The price you mentioned does not seem out of line with what they are bringing these days.
 
"Ken Warner's Blackjacks seem to be much better than Stewarts."

I have heard good things about the Warner Blackjacks, and I even own one of the "Warrior" models. However, I own several of the Effington, Ill. Blackjacks, and they are hard to beat, quality-wise. To take nothing away from the new models, I think the older ones set a very high standard to meet.
 
GarageBoy, did you say 7" Blackjack subhilt? That would be awesome!!! Do you have any links?
 
bladefoolish said:
With regard to the original Blackjacks, two of thier most popular models were the Model 1 and the Model 5, which bore a significant resemblence to the Randell models. They were made out of A-2 tool steel, and were quality knives.
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I did some research on this and I don't think any of the Blackjack Model 5's or 1-7's were made with A-2. Here is a quote from the link I found it on. http://www.blackjack.0catch.com/

Here is a bit of back ground information on this model. According to Mike Stewart this was the companies most popular model and was introduced in 1991. As you will soon see a lot of things happened in 1991. At the beginning of 1991, the BlackJack company was still in Van Nuys CA. They moved to Effingham in October of that year. Apparently the model was introduced early enough in the year that approx. 2 small batches of knives were completed in Van Nuys CA. These knives are marked Van Nuys CA as opposed to Effingham IL. These early knives were 80% assembled by the old Western Cutlery company in Colorado before that company tanked and sold their brand name and tooling to the Camillus company in 1991. Mike Stewart told me that between 600-900 knives were completed before the move to IL. These knives did have 0170-6 for the blades. The company that actually made 0170-6 was the Sharon Steel company. This company failed in 1988 but Western like so many other companies that used this steel were able to stockpile a fair amount of the material. So despite the fact that the company failed in 1988, knives were still being made with the steel they produced in the early 1990's. When the supply of 0170-6 dried up pretty much everyone in the industry switched back to the old standby 1095. In truth 0170-6 is an improved version of 1095 and was specifically designed for cutlery use. BlackJack decided to switch to 52-100 as a replacement for 0170-6 and the material that replaced it 1095. According to Mike Stewart BlackJack ordered a special melt of 52-100 in 1992. Mike told me that at the time it took about a year to actually get an order such as this from a steel mill after the order was placed. This may mean that the order of 52-100 would not have arrived in Effingham till sometime in 1993. I am sure there would have been a lot of blade blanks in 1095 that would have still been on hand at that time. It would have also taken time to get new blade blanks produced from the 52-100 steel as the company did not make the blanks in house. This process was outsourced to another company. Because of all these factors my guess is that the bulk of the production for this model would have been done in 1095. There is really know sure way of being able to tell if a knife has 52-100 blade or 1095. If you have one of the Western made knives you can be sure that the knife has a 0170-6 blade. There were about 40,000 1-7's made in all. The top three sellers on this model were Leather (1), Stag (2), and Micarta (3). of versions ranked by popularity.
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i personally resent blatant replications/knockoffs, unless of course, randall knives is getting some credit for the design, which i doubt. this knife is a replica of a randall model 1, that happens to have a subhilt. blackjack has replicated other randall designs as well.

*shakes head*
 
You may very well be correct. I was speaking from memory, and age renders it falsely. I've e-mailed Mike Stewart about this, and will probably stand corrected. That's what I get for "assuming".

Thanks.

[Edit: I did e-mail Mike, but while I was over at the "other" forum I checked a post in the Blackjack forum. In reply to an old post on that forum, he stated that the Blackjack Trail Guides were made from A-2, while the Blackjack "Classics' were made from 52-100. Also, it appears that some of the A/F's were made in A-2. On the section for the Model 5 at http://blackjackknives.us/ , it states: "Sometime around 1993 the company was forced to switch to 1095 since 0170-6 (which really is just a modified version of 1095) was no longer available. This is due to the fact that Sharon Steel which was the company that made 0170-6 ceased operations sometime in 1992. In the final few years once again the steel type switched to 52-100. According to Mike Stewart this final change started in about 1994. By the time the company ceased operations 52-100 was used in all of the classic models with the exception of the TrailGuide and Chukker. "]
 
You know, I used to feel the same way, which is why I missed out of some good deals a few years ago. However, I remember a discussion about there being some differences in design, which I will try to locate and post here.
 
NGK nailed it with the pic although mine appears to have a little more angle to the handle past the sub-hilt. Sits real nice in the hand. The blade says it is made of 1095CRYO Steel which I know nothing about except that it is a high carbon steel.

I am aware of the Randall model which this design copies. When I saw it I did not realize it, but while searching saw a comment about someone using a Blackjack Model 5 when not wanting to screw up "the real thing". That is why I did not want to sleep on this one. When I went back the guy behind the counter didn't seem too happy to watch it go.

The knife was packaged with a cardboard guard protecting the blade. The entire knife was wrapped in page 73 of the Gun List from June 9, 2000. I'm guessing that's the born on date. It was NIB and must not have been shipped with a sheath because there is a note on the box someone at the store made upon noticing it. I will have to get one made.

Strangest thing about this knife to me is that you are supposed to sharpen it by stropping it on a piece of cardboard. If it hadn't gone from sharp to shaving sharp with such little effort I might not have believed it.

Unfortunately I had planned on using this for a hunting knife once noticing the edge but now some say it is a collectable. I don't like the idea of safe queens so maybe I'll have to use this one and get "the real thing" one day instead. Depends on how rare these are I guess.

I will post pics soon but I need to do it the hard way and then scan them because I don't have a digital camera so it may be a few days.

ETA The blade also says "KNIFEWARE INC., GREENVILLE, WV" if that helps narrow down the origin for any of you so perhaps it isn't one of the rarer versions.
 
Hey Rex, good to see ya posting here buddy! :cool:

Garlic, not trying to be a blast of cold water here, but I've personally owned about 20 of the older BJK Randall clones, and somewhere around 100+ authentic Randall's...

Yes, the Randall's are better made, and better finished, but are by no means a better cutting tool, period. (RMK's are as good at cutting, but certainly not better).

The older BJK's are IMNSHO a damn nice knife for the money, and work very well for 'Cutting Stuff' (I have no experience with the new ones, so can't comment on them).

The things to keep in mind are that Randall designs are as heavily copied as those by Loveless...and that 90% of the cost comes in that last 10% of the finish work.

If BJK had 'finished' their knives, they would have ended up at roughly the same price as a Randall; and as such, they probably wouldn't have sold many (which would have been very bad for business, if ya get my drift).

Also, ya simply can't just discount the BlackJack's without discounting all of the Loveless inspired knives as made by all of the other makers to date...;)

BlackJack knives (at least the older ones), are a very good knife for someone intent on using it as a tool, and they won't cost all your lunch money either.

That's my read anyway, YMMV...

Mel

-edited to add- Springer45, it's convex, so strop it sharp; it's not a 'V' grind, so don't use a stone...and if ya ever decide to sell it, I'd like to be the first to make you an offer...:D
 
mel, borrowing design elements is one thing, but near-exact replication is another thing entirely. at the blade show a couple years ago, one of the factory vendors had a bunch of the blackjack fixed blade line, & it damn near looked like a randall knife display, as more than 1 of the designs was replicated. i lost all respect for blackjack from that point, as i have with other companies who pretty much specialize in taking others' designs & undercutting them pricewise. it's just a personal ideology of mine. i just can't stand thievery in all of its forms, & yes, if you know of blatant loveless replications, show me what company did it, & they can join my blacklist too. don't get me wrong here, i know that certain degrees of overlap in design influence is unavoidable -- but blatant replication is just plain wrong without giving the artist due credit or royalty.
 
Melvin-Purvis said:
...and if ya ever decide to sell it, I'd like to be the first to make you an offer...:D
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Let the bidding begin!

Just kidding. After handling this knife nothing else felt right in the shop. I think I've already developed an attachment to it. Let me get some photos up and hopefully I'll do it some justice.
 
Ken Warner bought the rights to the BJ name and models after BJ went bankrupt, All of the Currently American made BJ's are made by Bark River for Blackjack, just for conversation info.

i personally resent blatant replications/knockoffs, unless of course, Randall knives is getting some credit for the design, which i doubt. this knife is a replica of a Randall model 1, that happens to have a subhilt. blackjack has replicated other Randall designs as well.
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Blackjacks, Randal's, Marbles, they all look someone Else's knives to some point but all have different price points for different levels of buyers users and You should also know or remember, Ken Warner, Randall, Loveless are all buddies and have been around together since the beginning so it's not a matter of BJ copying some one Else's idea they all worked together. I beleive Garlic you maybe jumping to conclusions about BJ without knowing all the facts.
 
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