Need Manufacturer recommendations.

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neomadic

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I have designed, prototyped, and tested a survival hatchet and have been looking for a manufacturer to source the steel, cut the blanks, and machine the bevels but it seems like no one wants to take on any new work. Ideally, I could find a place that could handle full production including polishing, handle wrapping, and drop shipping, but I'd be happy to be able to source beveled blanks at this point.

I've tried a few places that I read good things about here on the forum and I haven't been impressed at all. The general response is, "Our machines can't do that. Thanks." I'm actually a machinist and am building my own multifunction CNC prototyping machine so I know that they just want me to go away, which is sad, because I have a good design and investors chomping at the bit.

Can you guys recommend any manufacturers that are willing to work with startups?
 
I didn't think that finding a manufacturer would be as difficult as it has been so far. I'd even be interested in entering into a partnership with someone if they can produce and drop ship. Every single person I've demonstrated the prototype to wants one so I know I'm onto something. I'll make a post with the claimed vs actual manufacturing capabilities and attitudes of the companies I've contacted so far. At this point, it's looking like I may be investing in setting up my own manufacturing facility though.
 
I will be the Dutch Uncle here.

You want someone else to provide all the materials, make the hatchet, finish it, pack it and ship it ... and you plan on making the profit? Trust me, they will want to make a profit, too. This will mean that you have to sell at a price well above what they will charge you. If you have investors, they will expect the main part of the profits.

If this was a new electronic gadget that had never been seen before, I could see that, but this is an item available at the hardware store and sporting goods places for very little. The companies that design and build them have spent hundreds of hours with engineers working out the ergonomics and material choices.

I doubt you can invent a new design that will surpass what already exists.

Once you get by al that, you have to market these. Selling one or two is one thing. Selling hundreds and thousands is another. If you don't have a firm plan on how to get to the second quantity, then you will lose money, not make it.

Then you have incorporation costs, investment contracts, licenses, taxes, insurance, etc. to deal with.

Just pointing out the hard facts of trying to reinvent the wheel and make money at it.
 
If I can make $10 on each one, I'd be happy. Production cost at low volumes should be in the $30-40 range and from market research, they should sell all day for $150. This leaves a lot of room for others to make money. Ideally, a bigger manufacturer will license the product and run with it, or I can form a partnership with someone that has the production facilities. I have a lot of inventions and would rather get them out there and make a little off each one, enabling others to make more profit off of the ideas, than attempt to maximize the profit on each project and sitting on them.

My design is simple but revolutionary. There is nothing like it on the market. I tested it in the field and it made all of my other knives and hatchets obsolete. I'd love to build them by hand but am no longer capable of doing so due to health reasons. As far as marketing goes, I've demonstrated prototypes to some big names in the survival/bushcraft world and they absolutely love them. The hatchet will show up on a few tv shows as soon as I let them know that we're ready for production.
 
neomadic said:
If I can make $10 on each one, I'd be happy. Production cost at low volumes should be in the $30-40 range and from market research, they should sell all day for $150. This leaves a lot of room for others to make money. Ideally, a bigger manufacturer will license the product and run with it, or I can form a partnership with someone that has the production facilities. I have a lot of inventions and would rather get them out there and make a little off each one, enabling others to make more profit off of the ideas, than attempt to maximize the profit on each project and sitting on them.

My design is simple but revolutionary. There is nothing like it on the market. I tested it in the field and it made all of my other knives and hatchets obsolete. I'd love to build them by hand but am no longer capable of doing so due to health reasons. As far as marketing goes, I've demonstrated prototypes to some big names in the survival/bushcraft world and they absolutely love them. The hatchet will show up on a few tv shows as soon as I let them know that we're ready for production.
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Seems the TV shows they would be on could help you source an MFG.
 
These are people that frequently appear on shows, not the producers themselves. Sadly, bushcrafters and survivalists don't have much machining industry experience.
 
So is this something cannot be made with run of the mill machine? What do you need, like a 5 axis to make it?
 
I made the prototype with an oxy torch, a 4" grinder, and a broken neck....

One of the shops that I requested a quote from told me that the bevels would need to be machined and not ground, but it's something they can't do. This could be done on a 3 axis CNC mill with one setup change to flip the part. I have a design in mind for a little DIY CNC that could machine the both sides of the bevels at once but I'd definitely rather farm it out if I can.

I did find a shop that would rather work with me than have me farm the idea out overseas but they can't source the materials, which will add some shipping costs. I just sent out a bunch of quotes to suppliers in MI, for a sheet of 1/4" 440c stainless so we'll see how things go.

I really just need to get some prototypes out there, regardless of profitability on the initial run.
 
I'm really having a hard time with this on several levels. I'm usually not inclined to advise someone against an entrepreneurial endeavor, I love the entrepreneurial spirit and love to see people succeed. But I just don't see that this will very profitable. If not much capital is necessary upfront then by all means go for it, but not if you are having to invest a bunch of money into this upfront. I'll admit I'm making some quick judgments based on very little info you have given us. But with that in mind. I don't see a 150 dollar hatchet "selling all day". A hatchet at that price would fill a very niche market with so many substitutes.

Your "revolutionary design" would be your only differentiator, but at that price I see the mass majority going for an alternative. Most other hatchets I see in the market at that price are from companies/people that have a marketable reputation. Starting out you wouldn't have that. Also a hatchet would never make a knife obsolete and a knife would never make a hatchet obsolete. These two are some of man's oldest tools. If there is nothing like it in the market, for as long as these tools have been around, there is probably a reason why. You said "Every single person I've demonstrated the prototype to wants one so I know I'm onto something", but would they still want it at that price point? There are many things I see where I'm like yes I love that product I want it, then I see the price and I think, nah... I don't love it that much.

What kind of market research have you done when finding out costs and sales price and how you will market it? Since you will not be making or even shipping the product you will only merely be a resaler which generally means low margin which means you will need a lot of volume to make this thing work, which means you need a lot of marketing which is expensive.

I'm not sure what you mean by "investors chomping at the bit", but I don't see a reasonable investor chomping at the bit at such an endeavor unless these investors are merely friends and family wanting to get you started, which is great, but have they actually invested in similar endeavors? You say you are a machinist, which is great, you understand the making of a product; but as someone in the business world there are so many things on the business level that tend to get overlooked or are not understood. I don't mean to be a naysayer, and hope you don't take offense, but I also care enough about people to want to help them make wise decisions. By all I means, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find a way to accomplish what you are setting out to do.
 
I am a knifemaker. I have spent $500 on a knife. I know people that have spent more. When i needed a hatchet to take camping and to cut down some dead decorative trees at my new house, i bought a $10 hatchet at the hardware store. In fact, i grabbed one that didnt have a price tag on it and i told the caahier "i think the sign said $8" and she rang it up as $8. I then took it home reground it, peeled off the abrasive crap plastic handle, and wrapped it with electrical tape. I love it.
 
the hatchet has been a daily use tool for over 100 thousand years. every size and shape and configuration has been tried at one time or other. the market for a $150 hatchet from an unknown is tiny at best. get a file, hacksaw, and angle grinder and make some prototypes, heat treat then test. use 1084 or 8670 for prototypes. a shop that can't/won't shop materials is not worth dealing with. sourcing hatchet material is 5 minute job. do your own sourcing and tell the shop the supplier is drop shipping to them.
good luck.
 
Do not let your design go overseas. “China” Your revolutionary hack/Knife will be ripped off before you get your first shipment and come in at half of your costs.. ———— Waterjettech.com can Cut the blanks.. Jay is the owner and does all of my patterns for my knives. Wont be able to bevel the axe heads though. —————————————I buy my Steels from thenewjerseysteelbaron.com and have shipped to Jay. Then to HT. Then to me for grinding and handle work.. Good Luck!
 
Thanks Laurence! This is exactly the kind of help I need. I really appreciate it. As far as the Chinese production thing goes, I will make them myself before sending the drawing overseas, for lots of reasons. ;) I just was pointing out that the responses I got so far from US shops were pointing to that as the only option.


For the naysayers and skeptics,

Other than fine, deep carving, I've been able to do everything I've needed to do with this hatchet. I even made a willow bow and arrows only using it. It's not the best for everything but it does a lot and does it all way better than Walmart gear. Sometimes, necessity breeds invention and humans come up with new things that work better than old things.

I definitely appreciate you guys taking the time to input here but thankfully, I'm not looking for product ideas, marketing ideas, or encouragement. I'm also not too interested in long discussions over the internet. I spend too much time looking at my cad program as it is. I'm just looking for someone friendly, trustworthy, and competent to make something for me in initially small quantities.

Initially, I plan to give lots of them to people in the niche market for what they are, hopefully selling enough to cover costs until word gets out and order volume goes up enough to bring costs down. I'm a grassroots kind of guy and not looking to make a million bucks with one idea and I also don't believe that a truly good product should need much more than word of mouth as far as advertising goes. If I get my idea out there, it helps a shop and a good steel supplier make some money, it helps people have fun and survive in the wild without having to carry a bunch of crap, and makes me enough to keep it going and maybe get a meal a day out of it, it's worth it to me. If I fail, at least all of my friends will have awesome hatchets.
This market's life depends on their gear. They appreciate quality materials and long lasting, low maintenance designs. On top of that, they tend to find ways to support their own.
 
I tried to edit the post above and it said I couldn't at first because it was spam.

If someone marked this as spam, you've done so in error. Just to be clear, I won't be selling anything online, ever.
 
Randy3000 said:
I am a knifemaker. I have spent $500 on a knife. I know people that have spent more. When i needed a hatchet to take camping and to cut down some dead decorative trees at my new house, i bought a $10 hatchet at the hardware store. In fact, i grabbed one that didnt have a price tag on it and i told the caahier "i think the sign said $8" and she rang it up as $8. I then took it home reground it, peeled off the abrasive crap plastic handle, and wrapped it with electrical tape. I love it.
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I'm a maker of everything. I've never spent a dime on a knife. My Buck 110 that I found in an old abandoned bus did almost everything I needed it to do for many many years. I know and love people that still use obsidian knives that they made on a daily basis. When I broke my neck, had a stroke, and couldn't reliably work anymore, I had to go live in the desert for a few years, off the land. It hurt like hell to tote a 65lb pack everywhere and my walmart hatchet came apart and almost took my head off so I went to a friend's shop and spent 30 hours cutting out, hardening, and sharpening a hatchet/knife and extension handle that literally saved my life on multiple occasions while out in the bush over then next couple of years. I probably love mine more. :)
 
scott.livesey said:
the hatchet has been a daily use tool for over 100 thousand years. every size and shape and configuration has been tried at one time or other. the market for a $150 hatchet from an unknown is tiny at best. get a file, hacksaw, and angle grinder and make some prototypes, heat treat then test. use 1084 or 8670 for prototypes. a shop that can't/won't shop materials is not worth dealing with. sourcing hatchet material is 5 minute job. do your own sourcing and tell the shop the supplier is drop shipping to them.
good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice.

I've made and tested three prototypes over the last six years, in the field, for months at a time. First one was 3/16" 1095 plate, annealed and hardened too many times in too many ways, and beat into a gumby shape, with a special trick involving graphene in the edge core, but still works great. The second, I cut on plasma table out of 3/8" hot rolled chinese junk. It's a little too big. The third, I cut on the cnc plasma out of 3/16" 316 scrap that I found locally. I finally got the shape dialed, would like a tad more thickness, and the ability to hold an edge would be nice so I've settled on 440HC for the next batch. This is far from a traditional hatchet in head shape or construction, and I don't want it to rust easily so that's why I'm looking at the 440.

Thanks for the tips on 1084 and 8670 too. When I feel better, I want to build a little propane forge and they look just right for another little project I have in mind. I also found this there, but at $130/hatchet materials cost, I don't think it's feasible. http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/laminat/
 
If on your first batch something happens to a couple of them during shipping and you have to replace them you are going to wish you made more than 10 bucks.
 
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