Need Serious Help!

RokJok

Much appreciated! Your method is showing how to aggressively remove metal to get to an edge where I'm trying to get to with the Spyderco, only.

Correct?

I am going to keep trying to use the Spyderco, and if I know that I'll eventually get a scary sharp edge, I'll be happy.

It's just that I am thinking that no matter how long I keep drawing this blade along thsoe stones.....nothing is happening.

I have used the black marker and I am taking the black color right off of the blade. So I guess that I am taking metal with it. The stones are showing metal residue.

It just drives me absolutely nuts that after all these strokes I can still slide my finger along this edge and it does not feel sharp at all. The blade can slice paper (somewhat) but not like Sal does on the DVD....not by a long shot.

I recently purchased a Shun Kai kitchen knife. I do not dare slide any finger along this Shun blade, let me tell you! Now of course, that was factory sharpened.

Still, Sal from Spyderco can do it with any blade in any condition.....and real easy!

I'm not quitting this deal.

Dan
 
You'll need to clean the stones pretty frequently when you do heavy removal. Try scrubbing them down with Bar Keeper's Friend every 40 strokes or so- cuts much better.
 
Alameda -

Glad you didn't give up. We forget that we speak a language that is foreign to those who have never done any serious sharpening. I apologize.

But you "hung in there baby", kept pecking away with questions and comments and didn't quit.

You will find out once you get to be a good sharpener, which I'm sure you very close to now, that every now and then you find a knife blade that feels like it is made out of diamonds or something. It is that hard to sharpen. When this happens to me things get personal and I'll struggle until I find a way to put a decent edge on that rascal if it kills me.

Contrasting the hard steel is the very soft stuff that amazes you because it sharpens in a wink. Of course it dulls even more quickly. You start asking yourself, "What's this made of?"

Seems like every knife is different, sort of like us, and each has his own pace and style.
 
DGG

Amen to that, Brother!

Really want to thank you all for the help to date.

And S & S.....that's another important bit of advice, that needs to be told.

What beginner would have known that the stones become less and less efficient as they become more and more loaded with steel? And they get that way in a real hurry.

You can never ask enough questions, and you can never, ever get enough answers......to anything.

At The Police Academy I won a very distinctive plaque at graduation ceremonies: given in front of a rather substantial crowd (with bagpipes).....for: "Having Asked Every Question Known to Man".

It was supposed to be all in good fun. Some people laughed. Some did not.

And to this day I am not absolutely sure how they intended it.

Dan
 
One of the nicest things about the Sharpmaker is that each rod has three sides to use when sharpening. When one side loads up with steel you just rotate them in their slot to the next clean edge or side.

A pair of permanently fixed round rods in a holder is a pain because you have to figure out how to unfasten them to clean them. And they only really use a tiny strip of stone on the round rod to do the sharpening so it clogs up much more quickly.

I have a travel sharpener with round rods stuck in a plastic holder that opens up to either a 30 or 40 degree angle. It forms a triangle. You pop the knife in the middle and make passes. To get the rods out you have to dunk the stupid thing in hot water to soften the plastic, pry the little round rods out, clean them up or just rotate them to a fresh side, heat the plastic part up again, jam them back into their slots. UGHHH!!!

Needless to say it gets little use.
 
What's the best way to clean say, a DMT course benchstone and a Sharpmaker? And about every 40 strokes you say?
 
DMT stones don't really need to be cleaned, you can scrub them with an old toothbush though.

There has been several threads on how to clean the Sharpmaker rods most effectively and there seem to be many ways out there. Personally I use Ajax and Scotch Brite pads. Also, while it is important to clean them frequently, it is not so important to clean them so that they look like new. They will look a little bit dirty even after you've cleaned them, but that doesn't impede function. I think a lot of people get a little carried away trying to get them as clean as possible. Important is really only that the steel that masks the abrasive is removed, not how clean they look.
 
Do you think non-chlorinated brake cleaner would hurt the Sharpmaker ceramic rods? How about the DMT stones?

Thanks for the info.
 
Brake cleaner should work well. I use it to clean my India and Arkansas stones. It will melt plastic, though.
Bill
 
Alameda,
I'm glad to see that a few posters here know about the eGullet Society! It's the best culinary forum I've seen, although I'm not very active on that site either.
I own those v-shaped honing devices of various manufactures, but I seldom use them. They're only good for honing(realigning the edge) the blade. If you want a sharp knife, you must learn how to sharpen it on a whetstone. It can be a natural or synthetic stone. If you go to a hardware store and buy a synthetic stone made in the USA, it will be invariably better quality, albeit, more expensive, than those cheap synthetic stones made in China! I have 8 in. & 6 in. stones.
Since I can't personally demonstrate how to sharpen your knives at your home, I'll have to suggest that you buy, or borrow one of the culinary textbooks: On Cooking by Sara Labensky(3rd ed.), or The New Professional Chef by The C.I.A.(Culinary Institute of America, 7th ed.). Barnes & Noble, or Borders Books, should have some copies on the shelf.
Refer to knife sharpening technique no. 2, in which you sharpen the blade from the tip to the heel, usually at a 17-9 degree angle. Use the stone dry! Contrary to popular practice, for best results, do not use honing oil! If you're still skeptical, read The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening by John Juranitch. When the stone becomes clogged, scrub it in warm sudsy water('Dawn' seems to be the best liquid dish washing detergent available) with a stainless steel sponge. Rinse. Let dry.
If you want to slice a tomato, you don't press the edge of the blade on the tomato. You draw the knife towards you. I suggest using a serrated knife for tomatoes. (The best serrated knives for commercial foodservice which I have ever used were LamsonSharp PRO Knives. No, I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm merely telling you from my cooking experience what works on tomatoes. BTW, the best forged kitchen cutlery made in the USA is Chef's Choice Trizor 10X Cutlery.
You will also need a butcher's steel to hone that slicer of yours. I recommend a Lamson Sharp 12 in. or 14 in. butcher's steel. (I prefer the 14 in. steel. You should always use a steel that is larger than the knife blade.) They're made for Lamson & Goodnow in the USA by Nicholson, and are of excellent quality. You could also buy a file brush to clean the butcher's steel. Mine(file brush) is also a Nicholson. If you want to spend more, you could buy an F. Dick butcher's steel made in Germany. They're considered to be the best butcher steel available.
P.S. For the best tactical knife for police work, check out TOPS Knives! ;)
 
HoB said:
DMT stones don't really need to be cleaned, you can scrub them with an old toothbush though.
Click to expand...

Huh? Wha? How can you say that? :confused: My DMT blue went from worthless to useable after a good scrubbing, and it wasn't even that dirty.
 
QUOTE "If every knife owner knew precisley how to recreate (over and over again) the scary sharp edge that they bought from the original purchase,the knife manufactures themselves would be on "the edge" of going the way of the dinosaurs.

Millions of people when confronted with a dull edge, just go out and buy a brand new edge. Their old knife stays in the kitchen draw." UNQUOTE

Alameda... I feel as "ignorant" as you about knives and sharpening. But I will say that getting my first sharp knife had an affect on me that made me want to buy more and more "good sharp knives" and then learn how to keep them sharp. It's an addiction. Just like any "collector" suffers from the desire to keep adding to their collection. So rather than let it go dull and buy another inferior knife, learning how to keep a good knife sharp, I think, makes us all want to get another toy to play with.

I still feel vastly inferior to everyone else at sharpening knives, but I've been bitten by the bug. Can't seem to buy enough knives and can't ever make them too sharp !

Tim
 
Alameda,

Another thought....

Did you purchase the "Diamond Rods" when you got your Sharpmaker?

I ordered the Diamond rods the same time I ordered my Sharpmaker in order to save a little on shipping. But, if you are starting out with knives that have never been sharpened before, you will be wanting/needing to remove more metal than if you are just maintaining an already sharp edge.

I'm no expert, but others here are, and have said the Diamond Rods made for the Sharpmaker are not as aggressive as other Diamond sharpeners, but at least they will fit into the Sharpmaker and allow you to keep working the desired angle.

The Diamond rods are very expensive... they will be about twice as much as you paid for your entire Sharpmaker kit, but they will last you nearly forever.

Just a suggestion....

Tim
 
Alameda,
I agree with pratzert, I became a knife hound! You can't have just one sharp knife! (The same rule applies to firearms as well, but this isn't the forum for firearms.) I had learned basic blacksmithing skills, took machine-, and wood-, shop courses, etc., and worked in a machine shop, factory, and earned a B.A. in Industrial Arts. Ergo, I appreciate a well-made knife!
After many years of sharpening cutlery, I don't even need to slice tomatoes, paper, arm hair, or whatever tests you see others doing to test a knife's sharpness. I can simply determine if the blade is sharp by taking a knife, pointing it towards a bright light, invert it, and look down the edge as you would aligning the rear and front sights on your pistol. I can see if there are any burrs, or nicks, on the edge of the blade. After much practice and experience, you'll develop an eye for that as well.
BTW, TOPS Knives are cut with a waterjet and hand belt-sanded to a 23 degree angle, double-beveled edge, so that it can easily be honed with commercially-made triangular honing rod devices(no brand names mentioned). All of the aforementioned brands of cutlery: TOPS Knives, Chefs Choice, LamsonSharp, are made in the USA and come with a lifetime warranty.
I hope that I have been of help to you. If you have any specific questions, you may contact me off the forum, because I'm not an active poster as some other posters here. Be careful on the means streets walking the thin blue line. :cool:
 
pratzert

Of course your point is well taken and my "observation" about buying knives was more of an off hand comment.

The diamond stones are a good thought, even at $60.00 plus.

The Ukn Cook

Thank you! Keep me informed.

Dan
 
Alameda,
I had considered diamond stones and honing rods 15 years ago. After much contemplation, I had concluded that they abrade extremely rapidly, and when the diamond particles are worn off, the stone, or rod, is practically useless! Even now, I am not impressed by diamond stones, and rods. Many people like them though.
I still recommend a good sharpening stone, e.g., NORTON, or Smith's. :thumbup:
(The stones 'made in China' are cheap, do not grind very well, quickly become clogged, and wear out!) :thumbdn:
Ceramic honing rods are recommended for Asian-style knives which are usually single-beveled, and have extremely thin edges.
If you eventually buy a good butcher's steel(e.g., LamsonSharp, made by Nicholson), I recommend that you also buy a Nicholson file card . If you want to get fancy, you could buy a file card & brush!
 
Sword and Shield said:
Huh? Wha? How can you say that? :confused: My DMT blue went from worthless to useable after a good scrubbing, and it wasn't even that dirty.
Click to expand...

What have you used your Diamond stone for? I have never had to clean mine. I use a drop of water during sharpening and rinse it afterwards, nor does DMT mention that they should be cleaned other than the scrubbig with the toothbrush. The diamonds should not really glaze much. The crevaces between the diamonds may fill in though and mask the diamonds somewhat. Probably worse with the finer grits than with the coarse grits.

I just ask my Post-Doc: Al2O3 is relatively easily attact both by acids and bases, but we are still talking about chemistry lab stength acids and bases. So prolonged exposure to oven cleaner for example I would probably avoid. I have not idea what break cleaner contains.
 
I've just used it for sharpening knives and chisels, and it needed a major cleaning after about the 6th chisel. Maybe that's a gummy steel.
 
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