need some advice on fixing a black dye job

[Cardinal Knife]

I am in the process of dyeing a sheath black (my first black dye attempt) and it's not going well. I put about 4 coats on last night because I kept seeing the brown natural leather color vaguely through the black. This morning I watched a video posted by Springfield leather and they stated I should have wiped off the black film before proceeding to the next coat. Well I went ahead a put on my last coat and went to bed. This morning I grabbed my kiwi black leather polish and was just going to use that as my final finish /conditioner since it is all they I have. As I rubber in the kiwi a lot of the black came off and yet once again I can see the natural leather color.

Okay, so obviously I botched my first attempt, my question is what steps should I now take to finish this? Can I go back and reapply more dye now that I have rubbed off the excess black? Should I clean with denatured alcohol and then dye?

Thanks in advance
Chris

 

[vonrichthofen54]

What type of dye are you using? Alcohol based dye should not react that way unless the leather was priviousely waxed. For black, I use an old military dye formula which is steel wool submerged in vinegar for about a week. Then I strain it and its ready to use. The dissoved iron and the vinegar reacts with the tannin in the leather and turns it jet black. Works every time.
I would clean your sheath and try either the old vinegar formula or Fiebings alcohol based dye.
Best of luck and please post photos of your finished project.
Vonrichthofen

 

[Cardinal Knife]

What type of dye are you using? Alcohol based dye should not react that way unless the leather was priviousely waxed. For black, I use an old military dye formula which is steel wool submerged in vinegar for about a week. Then I strain it and its ready to use. The dissoved iron and the vinegar reacts with the tannin in the leather and turns it jet black. Works every time.
I would clean your sheath and try either the old vinegar formula or Fiebings alcohol based dye.
Best of luck and please post photos of your finished project.
Vonrichthofen

Sorry I should have stated what I was using.
I am using Fiebings alcohol based USMC black on veg tanned leather. I did do a quick wipe down with denat alcohol before applying.

 

[Cardinal Knife]

What type of dye are you using? Alcohol based dye should not react that way unless the leather was priviousely waxed. For black, I use an old military dye formula which is steel wool submerged in vinegar for about a week. Then I strain it and its ready to use. The dissoved iron and the vinegar reacts with the tannin in the leather and turns it jet black. Works every time.
I would clean your sheath and try either the old vinegar formula or Fiebings alcohol based dye.
Best of luck and please post photos of your finished project.
Vonrichthofen

Sorry I should have stated what I was using.
I am using Fiebings alcohol based USMC black on veg tanned leather. I did do a quick wipe down with denat alcohol before applying.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Read this.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1216027

How your leather will react after having used shoe polish is uncertain to me.

What I've learned from using different dyes and leathers is that the results vary quite a bit. Even on my most resistant leather the above method helped if it didn't work perfectly. The above mentioned vinegaroon is a fail safe method in my experience, but the question of damage (at the very least neutralize with baking soda after) as well as the terrible smell keep me from using it further. Sure does make a gorgeous black though.

 

[vonrichthofen54]

Using the vinegar formula does make one smell like they have a dill pickle hanging on their belt!
Vonrichthofen

 

[Cardinal Knife]

Okay I don't really know what to do so I just put another coating of the USMC on. I'll see how it goes and post pictures when done thanks guys

 

[Cardinal Knife]

Well I put another coat of USMC on and let it dry. It looked real good until I start polishing it and a lot of it came off. I was upset at first, but then realized it looked kinda nice, so here it is.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Hey bud, not bad! Part of all of this is adjusting your expectations and it looks like you've done just that. Next time I suggest trying the method I outlined in the other thread, but for now you've got a cool looking piece of work. If I'm honest, some of my very favorite dye jobs came by pure accident. In some cases I couldn't reproduce the effect if I tried.

Good job!

 

[Cardinal Knife]

Thanks, I'm happy with it. I love that green sheath on your home page, I still need to learn how to basket weave.

 

[Horsewright]

Quien Sabe? It happens. I was making a holster one time for an officer to carry on duty. Dang if I could get it black. It wanted to be purple. I'm no chemist but it sure makes a guy wonder if he got a bad batch of dye or something. Your sheath looks pretty darn good. I'd prefer, personally the brown that it is over the black anyhoo.

 

[Horsewright]

Double Post

 

[Cardinal Knife]

I have the steel wool soaking in the vinegar as we speak btw. I'll test it out in a week or so.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Thanks, I'm happy with it. I love that green sheath on your home page, I still need to learn how to basket weave.

Thanks man, that was a fun one, and for a great guy. Basket weaving is pretty easy. If I may make a suggestion? If you have a Hobby Lobby near, take a look at the "Real Leather" brand stamps that come in a tube. These are US made stamps and are far higher quality than other makes. The manufacturer is actually Hide Crafter and you can find them by that name as well. Don't pay more than $10, the prices vary wildly but they are very good at that price. I can get them from SLC very inexpensively due to their wholesale agreement. If you qualify it's a no brainer.

I have the steel wool soaking in the vinegar as we speak btw. I'll test it out in a week or so.

You need not wait a week. I got a black black after a few hours. They do sell stainless wool so barring that you should be good.

Quien Sabe? It happens. I was making a holster one time for an officer to carry on duty. Dang if I could get it black. It wanted to be purple. I'm no chemist but it sure makes a guy wonder if he got a bad batch of dye or something. Your sheath looks pretty darn good. I'd prefer, personally the brown that it is over the black anyhoo.

If that happens again, try a colored base coat before the black. Any color should help. My main issues with black are fading and splotchiness, but I haven't had the problem you describe, I have read about it though, and the usual recommendation is for a colored base.

 

[Cardinal Knife]

Hey Omega I checked on it this morning after it set in the vinegar all night and it was still crystal clear. I used regular steel wall I'm assuming that is my problem and I am supposed to use a stainless steel wool which by the way I didn't even know they made

 

[jaymack9100]

Marine Corps black is one of my favorites, but I had the same problem as you the first few times I tried it. I even bought a quart of the stuff so I could dip dye my holsters, and still had the same issue.

Here's what I do now: I first use the method they are describing as vinegar and steel wool. go to leatherworker.net and do a search on vinegaroon dye. Here is one thread. (http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=14946) Once I dye my holster with vinegaroon, I neutralize it and let it dry. Once completely dry, this is when I use the Fiebings Marine Corps black dye.

Neutalizing is very important. The leather will split if you don't. The vinegar smell eventually goes away.

cwiehle0, it takes weeks for the steel wool to dissolve in the vinegar. Do not use stainless. Steel wool has a thin coating of oil on it, so you have to burn that off first. I use lighter fluid. Check out the tutorial on leatherworker.net

 

[Cardinal Knife]

Thanks for the great info jay Mack. I registered at leather worker few days ago, so I'll check it out

 

[Horsewright]

Dyeing it so I can dye it? No wonder I dislike dyeing! Naw gonna have to go with the bad batch theory. It was a Fiebings product but I don't remember which one. A small bottle the 4oz size. Did toss it. Course this was 20 odd years ago so thats probably why I don't remember which dye it was. I've probably done 300-400 black holsters. Switched all those years back to the Pro Oil Dye, never had a problem since. Just that one. I do keep a small bottle of the USMC on hand. I really like it for dyeing the background of tooling when I do that. Had a good gig for a while. A major statewide LE agency here in CA switched to a new gun. The beuracrats decided that the officers should carry this new gun off duty too. This makes sense to beuracrats not so much to the officers as the gun was very large and heavy. Problem was the gun was so new that there were literally zip, zilch, nada commercial holsters on the market. Literally nothing. This still made sense to beancounters even though it was basically impossible. I was approached by one of these officers to make a holster. I developed a pattern, made the holster and the floodgates opened. I made most of these holsters in just a few months. Each one was hand cut and hand sewn as I didn't know about clickers and didn't have a sewing machine. I made many more in other colors too. Then the floodgates closed and the gig was over. The buracrats got told that there was case law preventing them from determining what the officers carried off duty. They could go back to carrying whatever they wanted. Gig over. Good while it lasted.

 

[Cardinal Knife]

So horsewright, the pro oil dye should take care of my problems in the future?

 

[Horsewright]

It has for me. I'm not huge on dyeing but that is all I use except for the small bottle of USMC as mentioned. I will ususally have a guart of several colors and black on hand.