Need some advice...

stereo.pete

stereo.pete

Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
600
Alright folks,

I need some advice with this particular blade. I am making a Japanese boning/butcher knife i.e.: Honesuki. This will be a couple of firsts for me, number one, my first hollow/chisel grind and second, my first hidden tang handle (wa-handle). I have a few questions and I wanted to thank you in advance for your help. Here's a picture to aid in answering questions.
EwLK5j.jpg


1. With the tang, should I taper the tang in it's thickness as in making it thinner towards the end of it or is the same thickness going to be ok? Also, the blade stock is 5/32" is this going to be too large to use a hidden dowel with my wa-handle construction? If yes, any other construction methods?

2. The blade is made from 5/32" O1, for those of you familiar with this style of knife, what recommend hardness would you go for? It will be used for deboning chickens primarily i.e.: breaking down wings or pieces for fried chicken.

3. I know deep hollow grinds typically spell death for chopping vegetables, but as a protein slicer, do you see any issues? I am planning on keeping the back flat, so no ura like a traditional japanese blade. I will create a final bevel on the hollow side and simply deburr the back like one would when properly sharpening a traditional japanese blade. Do you see any issues with this style of edge, will it be too fragile? Should I include a small micro bevel on the back?

4. I made this broach out of 1/8" O1, which I plan on using to help me with future hidden tang handles. I will be sending this tool out for heat treatment as well, and was wondering what hardness you recommended.
H37xEM.jpg



Thanks again folks,

Pete
 
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Not much advice to give, Stereo, except to commend you. Your Honesuki looks REALLY good. I've always wanted to build one. If I might offer an answer or two....tapering the tang further is up to you. I doubt I would bother with that...but to each his own. I don't think you'll have any problems using your dowel pin with that stock. O1 is reasonably tough and fine grained. You might could run it higher in hardness than you think....59-60? I defer to those with more experience to give a better answer when deboning. Personally not a fan of hollow grinds in the kitchen...but that's ok. You may just have to experiment to see what kind of edge/micro bevel combinations work best. But I am not as experienced in these matters as some of the other gentlemen here.
 
About that broach. I'm hoping someone else will also reply; the teeth look a little fragile ad I believe just one would allow that tool to work best. A hardness off about 58 - 60 should work fine. Frank
 
I'm no Japanese knife expert nor am I a kitchen knife expert. But as soon as your picture started loading I thought to myself, wow that's cool. That is going to be a very nice knife when you're done. As for the broach, I don't make the teeth on mine so long. I would think anything harder than the wood or handle material you'll be using should work fine. Can't wait to see this one done.
 
Pete,

the profile of the knife looks great. The bevel is good but should be wider towards the tip. I wouldn't try to change this one but if you do any future you might keep this in mind. If I were you I would make my front bevel flat and slightly hollow grind the back, or make them both flat. when sharpening sharpen the front side bevel all the way to make the sharpened edge.

For the dowel you will find it much easier to split your dowel then mortise out for the tang and glue it back together. split it off center and mortise the thicker side for more support. a little sande will make it a traditional oval shape.

your broach is way to aggressive in the tooth profile. look at some metal broaches online for better Ideas of tooth profile. Three teeth will be plenty.60-61 hrc for knife and broach.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I will grind down the teeth on the broach after doing some more research. Bill, thanks for the heads up on the dowel, it really had me a bit worried. My next Honesuki will be more traditional with a flat grind on the front, and I will keep the back relatively flat and probably use my 72" radius platen from Nathan to create a ura, well at least that is the plan ;) .

For those of you with experience making wa-handles, are there any cheap types of wood that are worth practicing with before I dive into my collection of good wood? The Japanese use Ho-wood, which I imagine is an inexpensive option. What would you say is the North American equivalent?

Thanks,

Pete
 
Pete,

I don't have much to add except that your blade is looking fantastic! I'd offer you use of my kiln to do some heat treating, but my shop is unfortunately packed up at the moment.
 
Pete, I like O1 at Rc61. That seems to be the sweet spot where all properties are balanced.


I just stabilized some poplar with cactus juice in red and blue. PM me your address if you want a piece (free). Its curing right now in the oven, but I can take some pics later so you can choose if you want. :thumbup:
 
Here's the poplar. There is something wrong with my camera, so please excuse the pic. The red didn't penetrate well, so it came out pink, but the blue turned out really nice.

15871485472_3e3356c9d7_c.jpg
[/url]IMG_5932 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
much better bevel profile Pete. maybe bring the corner of the point back to the bevel but I can't tell for sure from the pictures.
 
Thanks for taking the time to comment Pablo and Bill. Concerning the point, I know exactly what you are talking about Bill. Traditional Japanese single bevel knives always have the bevel meeting at the beginning of the angle of the point, hard to explain at least for me. I was worried about the tip being too pointy and delicate then for a boning knife. I have another one waiting to be ground and I think I will stop the grind at that point for the next one.
 
On a heavy use knife, like a boner, I prefer to make the tip a much more blunt angle ( or a curve). On your last photo, I would have ground the tip end back until it reached the top of the bevel. The goal would be to have a single line from the tip to the bevel top, and a blunter tip angle of about 60°. This allows enough of a point to be used to separate the meat from the bone, but a stronger tip.
 
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