A friend and I are planning a four day canoe trip this summer. We'll each have our own canoe, and most of the trip will consist of lake travel with a small number of creeks and short portages thrown in. I own a 13 foot aluminum canoe which I have used mostly for day trips and fishing. It is my understanding that longer canoes are more efficient, so I'm considering borrowing or renting a 15-17 foot canoe for the trip, but I'm kind of on the fence. Will a larger boat make the trip noticeably easier (aside from portaging)? Thanks.
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Need some canoe advice...
- Thread starter x39
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Aluminum Canoe? Cmon ,you gotta get wood.
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LOL You're a real traditionalist Groovy. . . I like that. I just wish I could afford a good wooden canoe. Most of the canoeing I do is on rivers tho, so if I did have a wooden one I'd probably be afraid of banging it up on the rocks.
As for the question at hand, here's my completely non-expert 2 cents worth of opinion. . . I think you probably would be better off with the longer canoe. . . For a 1 or 2 day trip, or one that was going to be all on a river I might say it didn't matter, but for a long trip on mostly flat water like you're talking about I think it will make a difference.
Generaly the longer hull is going to be more effciant, but there are a few other factors to consider. For example I had an aluminum Gruman 17 foot that got replaced with a 16 foot Old Town Penobscott. The 16 foot Old Town was a faster paddling boat because it was a slimmer design with a narrower beam. Weight is also a factor. But all things being equal, the short stubby canoe is going to be a slower, less miles per day boat.
Also the load in the boat makes a difference. The bigger load will push the canoe deeper in the water, and the more hull in the water, the more drag you have. Thus a 17 foot boat with a capacity of 900 pounds will not use up as much draft as a 15 or 16 foot boat carrying the same weight. A longer hull will distribute the load weight along a greater area, thus not making the boat draw more draft.
Hull shape has alot to do with it as well. A sharper bow entry will go through the water easier than a blunt or rounded bow. They are finally molding some of the ABS plastic boats with more defined hulls now than before. Not as good as say a nice laid up fiberglass or kevlar hull though.
Also the load in the boat makes a difference. The bigger load will push the canoe deeper in the water, and the more hull in the water, the more drag you have. Thus a 17 foot boat with a capacity of 900 pounds will not use up as much draft as a 15 or 16 foot boat carrying the same weight. A longer hull will distribute the load weight along a greater area, thus not making the boat draw more draft.
Hull shape has alot to do with it as well. A sharper bow entry will go through the water easier than a blunt or rounded bow. They are finally molding some of the ABS plastic boats with more defined hulls now than before. Not as good as say a nice laid up fiberglass or kevlar hull though.
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your 13' will do just fine if you are going solo. If you do decide to rent, try out one of those kevelar canoes, they are so light, will make portaging a breeze. However, if you get caught out in a lake with high winds, you will have your work cut out for you paddling. Stick with the 13'er, you'll be just fine. I would save your money and buy a therma-rest sleeping pad if you don't already have one, I bought the prolite 3 two years ago, sweet :thumbup:
There is just something that feels wrong watching a bump in the floor move towards you as a plastic canoe goes over a rock, but I grew up in a wooden pirogue.
I would chose a stable canoe for fishing, wider for shelter, get there when I get there, but I am tired of flipping. Will there be any fast water at all?
I would chose a stable canoe for fishing, wider for shelter, get there when I get there, but I am tired of flipping. Will there be any fast water at all?
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I can tell you this. It takes at least a 17' canoe to put a whole moose in.
Another consideration is what your buddy is paddling. If there is a major difference in paddling efficiency / speed between your two canoes, the one with the faster boat is gonna be annoyed at having to travel slowly and the one with the slower boat is gonna be exhausted by trying to keep up.
In other words, if your buddy's got a fast canoe then get one yourself, if he's also got something fairly slow then dont worry about it.
In other words, if your buddy's got a fast canoe then get one yourself, if he's also got something fairly slow then dont worry about it.
That is one of my concerns. We've never paddled together, so we're planning a couple of day trips prior to the multi-day excursion, which will be a good time to compare equipment, speed, and abilities. He has taken numerous lengthy canoe trips, I'm pretty new at it, my background being more in hiking. The plan calls for a circular trip around several connecting or nearly connecting lakes, so most of the moving water sections shouldn't be too fast. As to my aluminum canoe, hey I got it for free and I've had a lot of fun with it, so I can't complain.
It has withstood a lot of use and abuse in the almost thirty years I've had it, the only maintenance being an occasional coat of paint. Thanks all for your wisdom.- Joined
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I usually go tripping in a discovery 169. I used it up to class 3 rapaids with ok results. It's fairly heavy, but if you can make it down a section, it saves a lot of energy from portaging. Fun too!
mewolf1
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I'm some what spoiled,but...
IMO stay whith your smaller boat! A bigger one means that the wind will blow your sorry butt all over the lake, turning in small creeks will be much harder, and you don't need to go fast. Speed is a relative term, it has to do with max hull speed and the difference isn't much. Efficiancy is another matter but this goes into all kinds of coifficience that don't have any bering to this trip.
13,14,15 max is a good solo IMO. See if there is a Bell canoe in your area to rent or borrow. Sounds to me like what you have is a Radisson Sports Pal or some such and are better served as a duck boat, but hey, it's yours and fun!:thumbup:
IMO stay whith your smaller boat! A bigger one means that the wind will blow your sorry butt all over the lake, turning in small creeks will be much harder, and you don't need to go fast. Speed is a relative term, it has to do with max hull speed and the difference isn't much. Efficiancy is another matter but this goes into all kinds of coifficience that don't have any bering to this trip.
13,14,15 max is a good solo IMO. See if there is a Bell canoe in your area to rent or borrow. Sounds to me like what you have is a Radisson Sports Pal or some such and are better served as a duck boat, but hey, it's yours and fun!:thumbup:
i sometimes put my kids in the bow of the Old Town Tripper and a full size canoe is tough to solo even leaned and especially when it's windy. A 16 footer is not to bad though.
Still for solo canoeing it's tough to beat a full bore solo canoe. I own a Clipper solitude (15 feet and narrow) and it paddles like a dream. Easy to keep up with tandem canoers especially with the spray skirt on. This boat will take 600 pounds so Moose is out but a couple of caribou would just about work.
Still for solo canoeing it's tough to beat a full bore solo canoe. I own a Clipper solitude (15 feet and narrow) and it paddles like a dream. Easy to keep up with tandem canoers especially with the spray skirt on. This boat will take 600 pounds so Moose is out but a couple of caribou would just about work.
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stay between the rocks. and pray.
we were going down the white water one at a time when the guys behind me could not wait. they rammed us from behind and pushed us sideways wedging between two rocks in the middle of the white water.
so waterproof your gear.
we were going down the white water one at a time when the guys behind me could not wait. they rammed us from behind and pushed us sideways wedging between two rocks in the middle of the white water.
so waterproof your gear.
Listen, to be honest, I've had a "plasticess" canooe, for, 10 years??
I've been so amazed at how well that thing works, Ive had a few wooden ones, and still do, but I allways like to take out the plastic one. I think pelican makes it?? I've had that thing through ice, storms, sunk it a few times even. Its doubble hulled, and is surprizingly light.
It was around $600, and worth every penny.
I've been so amazed at how well that thing works, Ive had a few wooden ones, and still do, but I allways like to take out the plastic one. I think pelican makes it?? I've had that thing through ice, storms, sunk it a few times even. Its doubble hulled, and is surprizingly light.
It was around $600, and worth every penny.
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Remember this, a longer canoe is both slower to steer and harder to control if the wind kicks up. You would be wise to find yourself a thick cushion and sit in the middle of whatever you decide. You'll steer better and be able to control it from that position. Evenly distribute your gear fore and aft with essentials close by: Drinking water, snacks, sunscreen, water cannon
I think you'll be glad you have the shorter canoe when your on the river and you have to pass by others or when you're on the open water and the wind kicks up.
Buy some dry bags also....not doubting your handling of a canoe, but it often comes down to "others" and their inexperience!
I think you'll be glad you have the shorter canoe when your on the river and you have to pass by others or when you're on the open water and the wind kicks up.
Buy some dry bags also....not doubting your handling of a canoe, but it often comes down to "others" and their inexperience!
Take a practice run with much of the gear you paln to take with. That's the best way to figure out if these canoes match your abilities. If you are each soloing in one canoe, a big canoe may be too much, especially on a lake if the wind blows up, and especially if your canoe doesn't hav a keel. The traditional solo position is to face the stern and sit with your backend to the bowseat, and depending on the canoe and the load, to lean a bit for control. But really, take a trial run.
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I was looking at buying a 12 or 13 ft canoe for solo paddling and fishing. I'm used to paddling with two people aboard a 15-16 ft canoe. A while back, I was paddling down a small river solo and tipped the canoe in flat water. I barely leaned outward at all. Convinced me. No canoe except with two paddlers. Looking at a ocean kayak now.
I think you will be best served with your 13 ft canoe. It's paid for. Much easier to handle on a lake where you are likely to have some wind. You're experienced, so you have a feel for what the canoe will handle. I was shocked at how easy it was to tip a canoe when you are solo. Be careful. Keep your stuff in waterproof bags. Tie the important gear to the canoe.
Not to chage the subject, but does anyone here have any experience with the ocean kayaks (sit on top variety) as far as stability in moving water? How about minor white water? I don't want to waste $1000 just to find out I can use the thing for my intended purpose (fishing, recreational paddling on flat water, paddling down small rivers with limited riffles/rapids.)
I think you will be best served with your 13 ft canoe. It's paid for. Much easier to handle on a lake where you are likely to have some wind. You're experienced, so you have a feel for what the canoe will handle. I was shocked at how easy it was to tip a canoe when you are solo. Be careful. Keep your stuff in waterproof bags. Tie the important gear to the canoe.
Not to chage the subject, but does anyone here have any experience with the ocean kayaks (sit on top variety) as far as stability in moving water? How about minor white water? I don't want to waste $1000 just to find out I can use the thing for my intended purpose (fishing, recreational paddling on flat water, paddling down small rivers with limited riffles/rapids.)