Need some canoe advice...

Problem with many 13 foot aluminum canoes is that they are very wide..designed as a fishing platform they paddle with all the grace of a rubber dinghy. Many more factors than just length go into how easy a hull paddles. Rent some modern solo models and you will learn a lot about what is desirable... a well designed solo will paddle circles around a recreational shorty.

Klepper makes a 14 foot solo based on Bill Masons prospector design http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_specs.php?model_id=107. My brother in law has one in Kevlar that seems to weigh 35 pounds I swear. Amazingly versatile. My Jensen designed Solitude http://www.clippercanoes.com/boat_specs.php?model_id=115 is 50+ pounds in fiberglass and very fast and fairly maneuverable.. It works better with 200 pounds of gear. With the spray skirt I can out paddle most Tandem pairs and routinely take it on our schools outdoor education trips. No problem keeping up with husky 18 year old's who want to embarrass their old principal.

As for falling out of a Tandem Canoe when going solo or being blown badly off course...sounds like technique. Paddle close to the center and lean the canoe over. From the middle both ends are extremely boyant and you can run rapids and waves very nicely. A really big tripping canoe is a bit of a challenge but great to learn good technique in. If the wind is swinging the canoe adjust your position in the boat so the wind is working for you. I enjoy paddling our big Tripper canoe solo but in high winds a bit more horsepower is nice.
 
Check your library and your local canoe club.

As stated by previous posters, a solo canoe should be
narrow enough that you can paddle from the center position.
Any canoe should have comfortable seat(s), even
though kneeling is traditional. Do not be dissuaded
from this, by pictures of experts, like Bill Mason. I do
admire Bill Mason, and his books and movies show how
he is well out-fitted in many ways, but not outfitting
the canoe itself. Bill was small and very fit and he could
paddle any canoe with or without seats; few people can
do this for long.

Wind can be handled by shifting weight (for and aft).
If paddling into the wind, you want more weight forward.
If paddling down wind, you want more weight aft.
If your center seat is adjustable for and aft, you can handle
most of this instantly. If this was not enough, a small amount
of cargo can be shifted; water bottles being my first choice.

Buying a smaller 2 man canoe, for solo use, is Not a great idea.
It is not outfitted with a center seat, and is probably too wide
in the middle for comfortable solo paddling from the center position.

BTW, loose ropes are a hazard; keep them secured in a pack or in
special bags. The throw-bag concept, for ropes, is very useful.

I am biased toward over planning and over out-fitting my canoes.
Many paddlers are casual about out-fitting, but here is my general advice:
Outfit your canoe so that it will float even if it is swamped,
and make sure gear is balanced and cannot escape the canoe.
Benefits are
1. You only have one thing to chase down, assuming you held on to your
paddle.
2. This keeps the canoe horizontal, even if capsized, very important for
keeping your canoe in one piece.
3. If your are swamped, and the canoe is righted (up side is up),
you can bail it out, and rescue techniques are not needed.

Do some research and talk to locals in a club. Have some fun.
 
x39 said:
A friend and I are planning a four day canoe trip this summer. We'll each have our own canoe, and most of the trip will consist of lake travel with a small number of creeks and short portages thrown in. I own a 13 foot aluminum canoe which I have used mostly for day trips and fishing. It is my understanding that longer canoes are more efficient, so I'm considering borrowing or renting a 15-17 foot canoe for the trip, but I'm kind of on the fence. Will a larger boat make the trip noticeably easier (aside from portaging)? Thanks.
Click to expand...

To answer your ?, yes, the RIGHT larger boat will make the trip noticeably easier. Key word there being right. There are many fine choices in canoes out there that will far & away outshine your 13' aluminum barge, especially on the lakes. I'll tell ya the same thing I tell anyone else. If possible, go out & test paddle as many boats as you can. That's the only way to definitively find what you works best for you & your skill level of paddling. For what you want to do, I'd suggest looking at boats in the 16' range. Your 13' boat may get the job done, but there are plenty of longer boats out there that will make the trip much more enjoyable.
 
I'm no expert but do have a few solo and tandem canoes.
For solo my fav is the long discontinued Blackhawk Starship.
I also own the following:
Kevlar, Swift Osprey, http://www.swiftcanoe.com/canoes/
Kevlar, Wenonah Rendezvous, http://www.wenonah.com/
Other great solo's can be had by the following:
Bell, http://www.bellcanoe.com/index.html
Clipper, http://www.clippercanoes.com/
Hemlock, http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/
Mad River, http://www.madrivercanoe.com/

For Tandems I have a Bell North Bay Cruiser and a Blackhawk ?(forgot the name)

My paddle of choice is Mitchell, http://www.mitchellpaddles.com/

Lots of reading and good info on all the mfg web sites.
Have a great trip.

dave
 
fnc said:
Outfit your canoe so that it will float even if it is swamped,
and make sure gear is balanced and cannot escape the canoe.
Click to expand...


Before I got the float bags, I used to glue a couple D rights in the bow and stern. Then I tie some half inflated inner tubes in it. Cheap and it works.
 
As a canoe designer since '79, I can tell you North 61 nailed it. Lots of good info throughout this thread though.

There are basically two approaches to all this, one is a real solo boat, like a single seat bicycle. The other is solo paddling a tandem, like a 2 seater bike. Solo canoes like those listed above are the perfect vehicle for trips, but a lot of what we see in books and movies is the 2 seater paddled solo. The latter is efficient with a big load, like a prospector, hunter, or Bill Mason basing his summer art and movie outings on their approach. People who copy this approach will find their boat is anythign from dangerously unstable to easily rolled by the wind if they aren't counterpoised by the forward load.

If you want to paddle one of the tandems solos without the load, that is where the sneaking forward and kneeling comes in, though a lot of boats these days have a very narrow thwart designed for kneeling, and it is quite comfortable.

A thirteen foot fat canoe is sorta a bridge between a skiff and a canoe. Longer canoes are not necesarilly faster, there is a trade off between more wetter surface area, and a finer ended wedge. But a 14-16 foot length is not excessive for a solo tripping boat. you need to look at beam just as closely and it will tend to vary between 24" and 32" at the waterline for solos. So a thirteen footer at 24" would be a light female, and 14.5 at 32" would carry some serious weight.

If you overload a canoe it looses stability rapidly, so any boat you choose should be checked against the effective displacement.

OT there are all sorts of sit on top kayaks these days. If you get one that has the lines of an ocean going kayak, not a surf play boat or something, it will not be very manouverable for WW. There is a type of racing kayak like that called a downriver kayak, but the paddler avoids all fancy manouvers where possible and just plows on through. Find a K1 river boat online and look at it's general specs, compare it to touring kayaks and ocean kayaks. get some numbers in your head, length, beam draft. Compare your desired boat to these numbers.

Most
 
I have a 14 foot bell Argosy and a couple of We No Nah's , a buck tail and a Merlin. The argosy is a great canoe in creeks and rivers, but horrible on the lakes, well not horrible,but a lot more work than the merlin, the Merlin is designed for lake or flat water canoe trips, where speed, efficiency and comfort are tops. The Bell is great on water that is moving and is a breeze to steer, handle currents and small rapids. It wil carry a load quite nicely. But put it on a lake with wind or on a LONG flat river section and it wanders hopelessly. If i was going on the Alagash I would take it in a heart beat.

The merlin is designed for big lakes, and long portages, it weighs 30 pounds or so and it carries a big load very well and paddles easy. It is not a boat you want on a big fast river as the flat long keel keep it going straight.

The Bucktail is a very small boat, a glass version of original adirondack solo canoes. you can paddle in a puddle with the thing. it it les than 22 pounds and running up and dropping it into little ponds and bays is easy and a lot of fun. it is not a tripping canoe but would work on protected waters.

I used to have a glued lapstrake canoe that I made that was 16 feet long and weighed less than 30 pounds and was a wonderful boat. If you want to build one later, Buy Tom Hill's Book "ultra light Boatbuilding" http://www.thomasjhillboatdesigns.com/book.html when you see how light you can build them you will stay, (mine was stolen from my roof top out side a motel in massachusetts) My son and I are going to build a couple more this summer.
 
I went out and double checked the dimensions on my canoe (barge? :P ). It is a Grumman, 13 feet long with a beam of 34 inches (measured from gunwale to gunwale). Seems kind of beamy compared to the dimensions mentioned by others in this thread. Any thoughts?
 
North61, Where in NWT are you?

Paddled the Mackenzie from Fort Prov to Inuvik last Summer, 2 of us + gear in a 16 1/2 foot Mad River Explorer. Def. need the spray skirt when the wind picks up.

Great pike fishing just North of Mills Lake, real treat after years of bottom bouncing shoulder to shoulder on the Fraser.
 
Hey: I am in Hay River which is just over the border North of Alberta. I have spent some time on the Mackenzie but mostly with a motor. Spray skirt makes a huge difference in the wind eh? Truth to tell I am not a great paddler but I have made /rebuilt canoes and kayaks and have done a lot of research. Slowly getting decent but I don't enjoy the fear of white water. Some folks like the adrenaline rush..I try to avoid it. I just like xploring the country where wild rivers take you.

Like to hear from protactical that my research has paid off. Read a lot of Clif Jacobsen and he is a good teacher. Have taken the flat water and white water courses as well and they are well worth it. The solo canoes are really fun to paddle. It is sometimes hard to find a skilled partner and I'd much rather paddle alone than not go at all or with someone who really wants to get me to swim. The solos allow one to go out with little if any performance penalty.

Of course my wife and kids often want to come along and then it's the big Tripper(or two) or better yet the 21 foot Scott with an outboard.

My latest joy is a pakboat 17 footer. I have figured a way to rig the seat in the middle and it's a bit cumbersome but will also float a deboned moose. Folded into a duffle it will get on the float plane and I will try to go on a solo moose float trip next fall. Very good gear.

I learned to canoe in crappy heavy old tubs and believe me a well designed and executed canoe is a joy. I have spent time in the broad beamed shorties and to me they are neither fish..nor fowl. Like paddling a bath tub when you have experienced a well designed and sleek solo and they don't really carry more gear than the well executed solo either.
 
x39 said:
A friend and I are planning a four day canoe trip this summer. We'll each have our own canoe, and most of the trip will consist of lake travel with a small number of creeks and short portages thrown in. I own a 13 foot aluminum canoe which I have used mostly for day trips and fishing. It is my understanding that longer canoes are more efficient, so I'm considering borrowing or renting a 15-17 foot canoe for the trip, but I'm kind of on the fence. Will a larger boat make the trip noticeably easier (aside from portaging)? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'd take the canoe you already have that way you will learn what is has to teach you.

Do not expect to keep up to longer canoes. Yes they are more efficient ... if you have the strength to make them go.... otherwise a 15 ' 6" solo canoe is pretty darn versatile. One example among several is this one http://clippercanoes.com/boat_specs.php?model_id=115

I would just go your own pace , do not expect to paddle side by side as it can lead to one paddler feeling like they are going too slow the other paddler getting exhausted. Just meet up at some place maybe for lunch and at a chosen campsite.

Most paddlers fall into two groups the A Group - wants to get from point to point as fast as possible , it might not be stated but actions speak volumes. The B Group is more relaxed but still gets there in reasonable time - maybe enjoying the journey a little bit more.

Have fun , it ain't a race , wear a life jacket and remember cold water is a killer
 
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