Need Sources for Larger Sword Oriented Materials

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PrinceArmory

Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
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It's no surprise that the vast majority of handle material and the available materials in general are for smaller knives but I aim to make swords almost exclusively and I was wondering if you guys could clue me in on sources for larger exotic wood chunks and big thick plates of brass stock as well as plates of general steel for things like flanged maces and such.
It'd be nice if there were a centralized source for what I seek but I doubt there will be, any advice would help.
 
Congratulations on your first post, PrinceArmory. I did notice that you do not have your profile filled out very fully, for instance I cannot see where you live and therfore cannot recommend anywhere specific to buy materials that would be local for you. Also, although for the most part it doesn't put me off too much, a fair amount of the more experienced makers here (who you really want to give you advice) may not even respond as the lack of any personal info kind of makes you a nonentity to them. (Not to give you a hard time, this is your first post after all..) Anyway, if you live near any sort of industrialized areas, I would go to metal recyclers and see if you can buy brass and stainless, monel,etc. from them. If you live near forests, look into what kind of hardwoods grow locally that you can find lumber, logs, or burls of. If you live in or near a city, it should be a snap to find exotic hardwood suppliers in the phone book. Many will carry serious board footage of some nice stuff. If by "general steel" you mean mild steel, that can be found in plate or any other form at your local structural steel supplier. Yellow pages.
 
I'm one of those folks vorpal was referring to. It helps a lot to know how to answer a question.

In addition to the profile info:
What is your sword and armor making experience and equipment?
What have you been working with ( materials) and type of swords making?
Are you looking for a single bar or a 4X8 foot sheet of steel?
Exotic wood is very reasonable by the board ( When you consider the number of handles you can make) from the exotic wood importers. Gilmer Exotic Woods is one of the biggest (and best in my opinion).There are many others.
Online Metals, Speedy Metals, Crucible Steel, Admiral Steel, and hundreds of others are metal sources.

Stacy
 
Point taken. Alright, I'm in central Texas, about 2.5 hours from Dallas, 2.5 hours from Austin, and about 5.5 hours from Houston, in the middle of nowhere with no convenient sources for materials. I'm resigned to dealing online since I don't travel so much anymore.

As for sword and armor making experience; making armor is what I do for income, making custom fantasy suits of leather armor. Not really set up for metal armor yet. http://princearmory.com/
A few examples:
lion%20armor-th.jpg
BlackAndSilver_th.jpg
Gryphon_Leather_Armor_07_pic_6_by_Azmal_th.jpg


As for swords the real story is really complex so the short of it is that I worked making armor alongside a sword maker for a time and watched him work and picked up the basics and some of the terminology, usually he bought cheapo Pakistan swords, stripped them down and made pretty handles and added some flare to the blades to sell at renaissance festivals as 'hand forged custom blades' but from time to time he did make some sturdy blades with good steel but he was protective of letting people see him work on these so I didn't get to see much of that. His work was all stock removal and in spite of his deceptive methods, his work was often very elaborate and pretty.

Over the last few years I've begun building my metal shop so I can expand to add custom weapons as part of my services. It’s a serious endeavor for me and while I’m humble in my current experience I don’t doubt my ability to become quite good though I’m sure I can expect some frustrations along the way. The market has tons of talented knifemakers and sword makers already. My goal is to try to find a more rare niche of unusual weapons, more fantasy themed than the norm and to serve that market. Same concept as that there are plenty of SCA armor smiths but few who make custom fantasy armor. It suits me.


Current shop setup:
1.5HP Variable Speed Burr King 2”x72” (the 272 knifemaker one)
Big Milling Machine (this one - > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42827 )
Long heat treat oven from TX Knifemakers
Wood band saw
3/4HP Baldor Buffer
Oxygen/Acetylene torch
Small wire feed welder (never been used; somehow the cord was cut and I haven’t had time to repair it, but it’s there)
General power tools like grinders and drills and dremel
Shop stuff like a vice, tap dye set,
80Gal compressor and various air tools

Still really need metal band saw and metal lathe-
Edit, found a good sale and got a 9x20 lathe ordered and a metal band saw now.


You can see from the tools I’ve collected that I’m committed to the cause but I’m still working on it and the tools sit mainly unused except for the few projects I’ve been able to commit a bit of time to. I’ve got one sword that’s using CPM 154 that I got from crucible and another that’s using 440C that I got from Texas knifemakers supply and a few odds and ends but not one finished project. I’ve got several sets of belts and have been trying to make my way in the dark to figure out which ones work best but it’s hard to say. Seems like these blades just eat belts left and right but I’m hoping that’s my experience level. Also trying to figure out which buffing compounds and wheels work, and what does what.
I have a few basic supplies on hand like epoxy, spacer material, a couple generic handle blocks (too small for swords so I can’t finish them) some brass stock (also too small for swords) mosaic pins and probably a few other odds and ends. I spent a lot on the tools but not much on materials yet

Thanks so much for the link to Gilmer, that’s going to occupy a good bit of my time to look thorough it. Just what I was after I think. Got any mystical sources for brass and sheet metal? I don’t need 4’x8’ sheets, that’s for sure, not now anyway, unless it’s cheap enough, but a good 2x2 or 2’x4’ chunk I could see within my means for things like maces, but I could use some 4' or longer 3" wide bars for blade steel, at least for some of the swords I will make. I'd like to find a distributor with good prices. I could use some brass sheets around 1’x2’ or even 1’x1’ and ¾” thick to 1” thick for crossguards and pommels and such.
 
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get yourself some 1070 or 5160 forget the supersteels for now.

I haven't looked at the for sale threads in a while, Aldo Bruno or Kelly Cupples should be able to set you up with steel

-Page
 
Thanks for your recommendation, I'll give it a go. Would you be willing to elaborate a bit on why you feel I should skip the supersteels for now? I just like to go all out on the first go and make it work one way or another.
 
I kind of prefer to jump right into learning new things with both feet as well, but I have personally found that this can sometimes be a frustrating and expensive habit. Not that I've learned.

Anyway, large sword size pieces of stainless are going to be tough to learn grinding big blades on, not to mention polishing. Heat treat could be a nightmare to learn on large stainless blades first without a little practice and application of theory on smaller blades.

Maybe try to build a couple daggers or short swords at least first. What if you grind and polish very succesfully on your first sword, then commit an error through lack of experience that effectively destroys the blade? We've all done that from time to time, and when you are talking about the amount of hours that go into a sword, you might have a recipe for suicide.

Or you could make a few costly errors, or encounter a lot of frustration, and decide to give up before truly giving it a chance.

Not trying to imply that any of these things WILL happen, or that you are predictably similar to anyone else, but sometimes these things do happen.

Just my .02, stick with it because it sounds like you have a head start in some ways that others of us didn't, like having already acquired some serious tools to learn with.

As you may already know, in a performance sword, i.e. "battle ready," stainless is not preferred as the abovementioned carbon steels will make a much more durable, shock resistant blade...

P.S. I seem to recall there being a lot of mesquite in Texas. This is a very hard wood, and can be quite beautiful. Go scavenging, then put that wood bandsaw to work!
 
I see what you mean and I don't disagree on any particular point. I intend to make weapons for a wide variety of steels, I expect 90% of my output for weapons will be much like my armor; custom preordered stuff. So it'll be up to the customer.

But of course I've got to get some good practice in and some demos of what I can do so I figured stainless would be a good place to start so I can get a mirror finish and focus on the art and let it be a low maintenance demo on the wall if I decide to do festivals and such. The CPM 154 sword is fairly complex in it's shape and I've gone about as far as I (think) I can go with it before HT so I grabbed the piece of 440C to make a more simple blade and it's mainly for aesthetic and geometric consistency practice, so I don't intend to heat treat it. the blade is basically done so now I need to find some good handle material and get a hefty chunk of brass. Preferably I'd like to get a nice long chunk of exotic wood to make a matching scabbard and handle.

So I think I'll do my best on this 440C sword to make it look nice, and have my first portfolio piece, then likely follow your recommendation of making some daggers to learn HT before committing more expensive projects to unexplored waters.
 
with the supersteels you will spend a lot of money on steel that is not suited to sword use that you will likely need to pay a lot of money to get professionally heat treated in an inert atmosphere furnace, 1070 and 5160 are easy to find in large pieces, easy to work, easy to heat treat, shock resistant enough for sword use, will hold an edge, and with the right technique should polish brighter than the CPM154. Aldo is doing a custom melt of 1084 sometime in the next couple of months, 1084 is my personal favorite steel, a little high carbon for swords but properly tempered, probably still more suitable than CPM 154
here's the thread

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639692

Aldo's email is available in that thread as well. Tell him Page sent you


-Page
 
Okay, for instance McMaster-Carr has many sizes of brass stock in all shapes and several alloys. Including some really big stock. Here's the link:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#brass/=1w3v9t
They also have bronze, Nickel, titatium, stainless, etc.

Anvilfire.com has an online store, with many useful products including brass, tool steels, and other non ferrous metals in a wide range of sizes. This is a great site, by the way:
http://www.anvilfire.com/sales/onlinemetals/index.htm
 
aw crap why are there 500 types of brass??? O_O Goodness.. whats the secret code for 'shiny brassy used in cross guards and pommels'?
 
Anvilfire seems to have a more simple selection but what's the difference between cartridge and naval brass?

I was looking to get around a .75"x12"x24" plate to have plenty on hand, but I'm seeing numbers from 600-1000$ That sound about right for the brass of cross guards and such? Not that I really knew what I was looking at but it seems like I've seen brass a lot cheaper. The guy I worked with was pretty cheap about materials most of the time and I know he had big sheets. It costs what it costs and I can always purchase it as I need it but I want to make sure I'm not looking at something far removed from what I intend to use it for.
 
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