Need Stone Sharpening Tips (Basic)

HeavyHanded said:
Forgot to add a last bit of advice - do not ever sharpen stuff after having a drink unless its some sort of emergency. Fine motor skills go down the toilet as well as any fine tactile awareness.http://s748.photobucket.com/user/Millermeter_2010/library/WB_Manual?sort=9&page=1
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Hmmm. I better start doing my sharpening much earlier in the evening then :)

BTW, That washboard idea of yours is pretty nifty. I didn't finish reading up on it yet. Just jumped into your vids.
 
JWheel said:
Hmmm. I better start doing my sharpening much earlier in the evening then :)

BTW, That washboard idea of yours is pretty nifty. I didn't finish reading up on it yet. Just jumped into your vids.
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Yeah, hand sharpening is a lot like doing the cutting in work when painting a room. Have a few beers and you think you're doing alright. Take a look the next day and wonder if that was anywhere near the best you could do:o

While I still have a few of the current version, I'm in the process of updating the Washboard and will be re-releasing it soon. Bigger and with a more positive anchor system. Is not a Silver Bullet, but for freehand is extremely effective and easily adapted to suit the individual.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...)-Washboard-sharpening-version-and-short-vids

and another I just posted up:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1309510-Fixing-the-hardware-store-hatchet
 
After reading some of your instructions, HH, and watching some vids, I gave this another go with two adjustments: (1) I lowered the angle like you said, and I (2) used only edge trailing swipes. I ended up with an edge that will push cut paper (not awesomely, but still an improvement). It's not shaving yet, and I still haven't noticed a burr (maybe I don't know what it should feel like), but any progress is good.

Also, based on the way the light is reflecting, I think I'm convexing the edge. I'm guessing that means I'm either rolling or otherwise inconsistent with the angle on my swipes, right? It might have a little something to do with the table height. Might need to move my workspace.

I plan to dull the blade and give the whole process another go.
 
If you can see a bit of curvature, then its there. The degree will shrink considerably as you get better, but when freehanding will always be some degree of wobble.

The edge trailing swipes work best on wet/dry and when stropping, the stone you've started with should work best with leading passes to finish, though can be used with trailing passes or a scrubbing pass when grinding. More recommendations - stay on one side till you know you've raised a burr, then switch. Until you can feel a burr form, you cannot say for certain that a new edge has been ground and might just be hovering between degrees of close-to-sharp. This is essential. The finger rub test is pretty accurate, or single source direct lighting played across the face of the blade while slowly rocking back and forth. The burr will be on a different plane than the rest of the edge and throw back light along a different angle.

I prefer standing at a work bench with the work somewhere between navel and solar plexus. Plenty of folks sit etc, for me standing has produced the best results.

Sounds like you're making good progress.
 
Thanks for the help, HH. I gave it another go (before I saw your latest post) where I stood at the kitchen counter instead of sitting. I dulled the blade then went back to the 100 grit, then 280, then 320, then leather strop with green compound. This time, I felt a burr. And the end result was a bit better than last time. I'll keep practicing. I want to get decent with the cheap Old Hickory paring knife before I try anything on my good steel.
 
JWheel said:
Thanks for the help, HH. I gave it another go (before I saw your latest post) where I stood at the kitchen counter instead of sitting. I dulled the blade then went back to the 100 grit, then 280, then 320, then leather strop with green compound. This time, I felt a burr. And the end result was a bit better than last time. I'll keep practicing. I want to get decent with the cheap Old Hickory paring knife before I try anything on my good steel.
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Good plan, don't kill any good cutlery learning. Also, Old Hickory on a silicon carbide stone means you will have to use very light pressure to get the most. Also, the green compound might be a bit fine for this progression. You can also (if using oil on your stone) reclaim the thin mud/silt that forms on the stone in use, wipe it on paper just like my video, and wrap that around the coarse side of your stone - makes an excellent improvised compound and follow on to the rougher stone.

Good progress, observe often, make corrections based on what you observe, and you'll be fine in no time.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Good plan, don't kill any good cutlery learning. Also, Old Hickory on a silicon carbide stone means you will have to use very light pressure to get the most. Also, the green compound might be a bit fine for this progression. You can also (if using oil on your stone) reclaim the thin mud/silt that forms on the stone in use, wipe it on paper just like my video, and wrap that around the coarse side of your stone - makes an excellent improvised compound and follow on to the rougher stone.

Good progress, observe often, make corrections based on what you observe, and you'll be fine in no time.
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Thanks again! I'll try reclaiming the slurry and using that to finish.
 
Boom! I got it!

Stayed on one side longer than I had been (scrubbing motions this time) and could finally feel a burr. Made sure it was the length of the blade, then switched sides and repeated. Worked my way through the grits. Then after the 320 stone, I did the paper/slurry trick. At the very end I stropped to make sure the burr was gone then popped a few hairs off the back of my hand. I don't think this would shave a big patch very easily, but I was very happy for things to go roughly like they're supposed to.

Thanks, HH!
 
So if I want to add to this set-up for more refinement, I was thinking about a DMT duo-sharp in fine/extra-fine. I believe the fine is around 600 grit and the extra-fine is between 1000-1500. (Actually, I may be really off there. Does anyone have better data?)

Does this sound like what I should get? I suspect that my outdoor Beckers would probably do best in the 600-800 range, but my Spydies might benefit from a 1000+ grit.
 
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JWheel said:
So if I want to add to this set-up for more refinement, I was thinking about a DMT duo-sharp in fine/extra-fine. I believe the fine is around 600 grit and the extra-fine is between 1000-1500. (Actually, I may be really off there. Does anyone have better data?)

Does this sound like what I should get? I suspect that my outdoor Beckers would probably do best in the 600-800 range, but my Spydies might benefit from a 1000+ grit.
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The two sided DIA sharp continuous surface would be another option. The fine and extra fine would be good follow on for the combination SiC stone. So would a 1k/6k waterstone combo of which there are literally over a dozen good choices. Once you get technique down, there is no limit to the available options. The more a tool will be used for chopping or carving, the finer you'll want to polish it. Daily usage will benefit from having some irregularities left in the edge.

I've pushed the release date for my Washboards back to mid August as I'm still working on the price and possible options, though a small number have been leaking out of my workshop.
 
Some thing that will help tremendously, when hand sharpening on stones or diamond plates, is a set of degree wedges in some of the standard degree per side angles. I have a set with 8-10-12-14-15-16-17-18-20. Set the wedge on the surface of the stone and the blade on top, lock your wrist and then make the pass. This will help you to maintain a constant angle of approach whichever angle you choose. Its a good way to learn which position corresponds to which angle and makes the process go much quicker since no time is spent on anything other than the correct angle.
Most people who don't have a lot of experience tend to hold the blade at a range of angles instead of the one you have chosen.

Fred
 
I'm coming late to the party here, but imo you are paying way, way, way to much attention to your stones and nowhere near enough to your technique. All of the gear you've mentioned will get a knife shaving sharp very easily.
 
JWheel said:
Part of the issue is that the Old Hickory came without an apex.
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This may be the main problem. Probably be easier to buy a cheap knife with a decent angle, dull it on a coffee mug and try to bring it back. Sharpie trick worked wonders for me also. Jason B's vids on the tube helped me tremendously in controlling my stroke (thanks Jason) and in no time I had some screaming edges for a noob.

And I'd at least suggest the 2x6 dmt course/fine combo stone, it's like 35 40 bucks and would be great item to practice with. It will last a long while and won't dish out. The course/fine dmt plus stroping should give a great utility edge if I'm not mistaken. And are you switching the knife from left to right hands?
 
This is a very good informative thread answering some questions I had as well being super fresh to freehand sharpening. I just bought the 6 in Smith's 1000 grit ceramic stone that was mentioned earlier in this thread 6.95 shipped and it is hands down worth every penny. Keep in mind I'm just starting out and not reprofiling edges but it brought 2 of my dull knives to finger tip skin sliver sharp! I started a thread here a few hours ago asking about any options anyone may have for a next step up from the Smith's 1k grit ceramic to further refine my edge?
 
One step forward, two steps back. I spent the last 2 hours failing, watching vids, and more failing. I clearly have no concept of what I'm doing. I don't know how to measure progress until I get to the end and realize I've failed. If someone can recommend some specific videos that I maybe haven't seen, I would appreciate it.
 
JWheel said:
One step forward, two steps back. I spent the last 2 hours failing, watching vids, and more failing. I clearly have no concept of what I'm doing. I don't know how to measure progress until I get to the end and realize I've failed. If someone can recommend some specific videos that I maybe haven't seen, I would appreciate it.
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Um, stop watching videos :) you better watch yourself
if you can't watch yourself, videotape yourself going at it for one minute, then watch the video
think about what you're doing and how you're doing it, how you're holding stone/knife, where your hand is, how far it moves, how your wrist rotates, elbow moves, where you're looking; its very important to write it all down with pen and paper , easiest way to actually think about it, remember, to force yourself to write stuff down

is your stone in your hand? on a table/towel? raised on a brick?
chest level? elbow level? belly button level? lap/thigh level? on the floor?
are you wobbling blade left to right or up to down?
rotating wrist to the right or to the left? locked your wrist?
is your angle too low or too high?
how much force are you applying (measure with bathroom/weight scale)?

use the sharpie/marker trick to see if you're too low or too high angle
the norton stones won't crumble if you press hard :)


how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton
stones come out at 5min,
destroy edge at 6:50 (this leaves edge reflective, use flashlight),
sharpie/magic marker trick starts at 7min15
once he finds the angle he raises a burr on one side then the other (or you can just watch for reflection until it you can't see it anymore)
"weakening burr" around 12min30 , skip this part,
jump straight to microbeveling at 13:40 (its cutting the burr off at double the angle, getting shaving sharp)
then do the weakening burr portion (light strokes at original sharpening angle)

if you got half hour (times four) and want to see one of everything get sharpened :)
▶ "How to sharpen anything and still keep a smile on your face" - Warren Goodyer part 1
 
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