need tough abuse-folder, at reasonable price

D

dennis75

Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
820
i know usually in threads like these (folder-abuse), knives such as Striders, TOPS, Greco's, Sebenza's etc. are most often advised, or "get a prybar/prybaby/fixed blade........"

however, my situation is different, i'm looking for something CHEAP that will take some abuse like prying open a door/crate and needs a sturdy tanto-tip for the occasional "hard-object-stab".

i've already decided that i need a tanto point, it's just the best for tip-abuse.
i also know that i can't and won't afford a Strider, TOPS or any other overbuilt, high-priced folder. i need an affordable tactical folder with a tanto-point and sufficient grunt to withstand, or at least survive, hard prying.

i'm currently checking out CRKT's M16. i've read lots and lots about it, including a multi-review in a knife-magazine where the M16 actually won and took 1st place because of its capabilities and reasonable price. the buck-strider tanto and spyderco atr came in second.

what do you think of CRKT's M16? is it a good choice? i know aus-8 steel isn't that great, but i don't mind edge-holding much. i like to sharpen.

another thing i always wondered was this: for prying, would you be better off with soft flexible steel like aus8, or a really tough and hard steel, like bg42? let's assume in this comparison a blade-thickness of 3.5mm's.....

i also wonder if it matters in what position/direction you pry with a folder that has a liner-lock? is it better to hold the knife edge-up and twist to the left?

any other suggestions are welcome too. criteria: cheapo folder suited for tip- and pry-abuse.

tia for any help,
dennis

PS. i have experienced 3 buck-striders (2 tanto, 1 spear) and what i liked was the blade's point and strength, but i managed to get bladeplay on all 3 of them......

buck-striders are also quite expensive in europe. thus my interest in CRKT's M16 line
 
well, something like how much crkt's m16 costs. let's say below $150 for sure.

generally i'm a spyderco-guy, but i got thinking about tanto's and more tough folders lately, since i managed to break the tip of yet another 2 spydercos, and it wasn't even abuse:

-karambit: was just lying on my wooden table, got shoved aside and around a few times on the table in the open position. suddenly one day i noticed the tip was gone (?! :eek: )

-scorpius: just this afternoon. was whittling my ball-in-a-cage (it's finished now, looks quite ok). dropped the scorpius from about 2 ft height on my soft carpet floor (not even vertically straight down, but it kind of slit down from the sofa). result: tip gone.

i just like a knife that has a tip that can take a drop to the floor wthout breaking.

i also want one that can be used to pry open stuff in emergencies. i know, get a strider, get a tops cqt, get a prybaby, get a fixed tanto. things is, i want something portable that folds in my pocket for easy carry, and can stab, pry and cut stuff.......

:(
 
It seem to me that a Buck/Strider will fit the bill for you.
Short of that, maybe a Chinook 1.
 
Walking Man said:
It seem to me that a Buck/Strider will fit the bill for you.
Short of that, maybe a Chinook 1.
Click to expand...

no, i had 3 bs's and they all developed vert+horiz bladeplay. plus they are qute expensive over here. not to mention they are heavy, bulky and eat denim pants by the second

the chinook is nowhere near suitable because of its pointy clippoint. i can also imagine that it's a 'breaker'...

thanks for the suggestions though.

i'm probably looking for the holy grail knife again that dont exist. :grumpy:

maybe an affordable 4" fixed blade tanto with easy carrying system is an option, come to think of it......
 
I can't think of a single production folder that I'd trust for "prying open a door/crate". The blade would most likely snap on all of them. You're better of checking out the Peter Atwood's knife alternatives.

Atwood Knives
 
dennis75 said:
for prying, would you be better off with soft flexible steel like aus8, or a really tough and hard steel, like bg42?
Click to expand...
The soft one.

i also wonder if it matters in what position/direction you pry with a folder that has a liner-lock? is it better to hold the knife edge-up and twist to the left?
Click to expand...
If you are twisting it at all, don't get a liner or integral, unless it has a LAWKS system or similar.

i have experienced 3 buck-striders (2 tanto, 1 spear) and what i liked was the blade's point and strength, but i managed to get bladeplay on all 3 of them......
Click to expand...
This was a common problem if I recall correctly, Buck should be able to help you out however return shipping and duties can be a hassle out of country. Your local dealer should take care of that though.

On the CRKT, I just took a Point Guard, put it 1/4" in a piece of spruce and it broke the wood out cleanly. I then drove it 1/2" in and pushed the knife down until it was flat with the wood. The point took a 25 degree set but didn't break. The lock held up fine, no blade play.

Looks like a solid choice to me if they make something with similar construction but with a different blade shape for more strength. I am not that familiar with their line however.

-Cliff
 
Sure a folder is not anyones first choice to pry with.Yet I've had 3 jobs over the last 25 years or so (construction,dock worker and fireman) and on all three there has been times where I needed to pry and "the right tool" wasn't at hand and time/distance etc. meant I wasn't going to get to "the right tool".

I have had good luck with CRKT M-16 as well as Cold Steels tanto Voyager.In fact I think a Med. CS Voyager with tanto would make a fine easy to carry second knife for such tasks.

Happy prying you crazy man. ;)
 
Cliff Stamp said:
This was a common problem if I recall correctly, Buck should be able to help you out however return shipping and duties can be a hassle out of country. Your local dealer should take care of that though.
Click to expand...

Just a cmment regarding customs issues with repairs: if you're shipping an item that you imported at some point back to manufacturer for repairs and expect them to return it (or replacement) back to you there are two things you should pay attention to:

1: Try to find the original import papers (customs declaration form aka CN23 and customs invoice for import duties if one exists). Then contact your local postal customs service and ask them whether that is enough to get the repaired product back through once it's fixed. If that is not the case OR you failed to find the original papers go to #2.

2: Contact the local postal customs service and ask them what to do; they will mostlikely tell you that you need to ship the item with outgoing customs declaration EVEN WHEN ONE IS NOT REQUIRED (as is usually the case with shipments of folding knife-sized items from EU to the US) and keep a copy of those export papers to present them when the fixed goods are returned so you don't have to pay the taxes again.

Caveat for #2: make sure the value you put on the customs papers is BELOW import limit for destination country (i'm sure one of our American forumites can chime in here with the details) so that your item actually gets back to manufacturer, without being held by the customs and/or manufacturer refusing to import it due to import duties on their part. The upside is that (IIRC) tax-free import limit is quite high for the US, higher than that of most EU countries.

Either way, none of this applies when you have local distributor taking care of things if you bought the item locally (alas not the case for my knife purchases, local markup is usually ~100% over already high eBay price of seller who is willing to ship their stuff overseas in the first place + shipping expenses + import duties).

A side note: if people were less paranoid about dealing with foreigners (afterall it'sno-risk business, goods aren't shipped until payment is recieved) they could make far more money peddling their stuff than they do now.
 
Buzzbait said:
I can't think of a single production folder that I'd trust for "prying open a door/crate". The blade would most likely snap on all of them.
Click to expand...
The handle goes the majority of the time before the blade, even if not all the way to broken, it opens up and the blade is extremely wobbly, or the lock is damaged. A 1/8" blade isn't trivial to snap if you are prying with only a few inches of leverage, a 3/16" one is near impossible, you can hang 200+ lbs off of it.

-Cliff
 
If you HAVE to pry with a folder, I'd want an Axis lock. If you want a tanto tip, that means you're looking at:

BM 722 - full built with aluminum or G10 handles, 154CM, 3.25" blade, MSRP $160

BM 553 Griptilian, plastic over stainless, 440C, 3.45", MSRP $95

BM 557 Griptilian, plastic over stainless, 440C, 2.9", MSRP $85

Or a made-by Benchmade NRA Knives,

NRA 12800 Gaucho, aluminum handles, 154CM, 3.54", MSRP $180

Those are full MSRP, so internet price is about 60-70% of that in the US, not sure about Europe. If your definition of cheap is under $150, they qualify.

With that said, if you KNOW you're going to have to pry, carry a little prybar.

Oh - there's also a Benchmade Heckler & Koch Axis lock tanto - it's in the same realm as the Gaucho, maybe the H&Ks will be more easily/reasonably available in Europe?
 
The first knife that comes to mind that meets your needs (an inexpensive folder that you can pry with) is the Schrade LB7 or Buck 110.

The tip is'nt a tanto but you could always snap the tip and reprofile to suit your needs.

They are very heavy but very strong.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Buzzbait said:
I can't think of a single production folder that I'd trust for "prying open a door/crate".
Click to expand...
Me neither. A 3/16" fixed blade with a strong tip is the minimum I'd pry open a crate with. It might handle a door. Guess it depends on the door.
Folders need not apply.
 
Cold Steel's Voyager Tanto is pretty cheap and would suit your needs quite well - used to be my EDC years ago. I did some stuff with that knife you shouldn't do with a folder & it held up great.

Now I like the Chinook II but then I don't do any prying with it...
 
Took a large Voyager, AUS8A :

Put the tip 1/4" in the same piece of wood, didn't clear the wood, went flat to the surface taking a bend in the blade.

When 1/2" deep, again went flat to the surface, now had a huge bend, 45 degrees in about an inch of blade.

Took a piece of 1x4, nailed it to two over head 2x4 studs with four 2.5" nails. Drove the voyager underneath the board and yanked on it with body weight easily drawing out the nails.

The blade was inserted in until full thickness and width took the prying load. It didn't flex significantly in drawing out the nails. While it is only 1/8" it is only sabre ground and thus a lot of the blade is left at full thickness.

I then spent some time working the tip back and forth in the wood until it broke, you would want to be trying to do this to get fracture. I then reground it to a snub point.

It was then batoned through six one inch sticks, and then a couple of two inch ones, by making cuts on both sides. I then jammed it point first into a log full blade width and torqued on the lock straight down to see the up/down strength.

This showed the weakness of the Zytel as the lock started to open immediately and I could have easily broke it by hand with just wrist torque as the Zytel was shearing. This induced a little blade play, a mm or so. Still locks up firm.

Dennis, drop me an email if you want to have this to beat on to give you some idea of what you can do to a folder before it collapses.

-Cliff
 
This is what you call a catch-22 situation. A knife by definition is primarily a cutting tool, right? I personally want my knife to slice well and be of a functional shape (IMO the Tanto is usable, but not optimal). A folding knife just isn't designed to be a prybar. I like to carry a multi-tool for those "abuse" tasks that pop up. The needle nose pliar head on most of the popular models prys pretty good, the short screw driver blades are less prone to snap than a longer knife blade if you need something thinner. If you snapp something off....So what? Your only out $40 and still have most of the other tools as opposed to breaking a good $100+ knife. The endless discussion of which high quality folder is better than the next is a bunch of apples to apples mental masturbation....not to many people in the real world give a sh-t.
 
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