Need Your Help with Selecting Knife: Glock vs. Ontario 499 Air Force, or 498 Marine Combat

[Sgt 127]

Other thoughts:

Interesting to note that no one has suggested an Airforce Pilot's Survival knife

The Ontario 499 is the current nomenclature for the Jet Pilots Survival knife.

 

[VorpelSword]

"While Ontario has a long history and makes decent knives, they are made with stick tangs. While they are full length tangs, they do not have the thickness of a full-width full tang. That disqualifies them for hard use in my opinion as well."



From VorpelSword:
Thank you for that opinion. I have felt the same way about the iconic Randall #1 Fighter and other models. When I said so on one of the forums here, there was a storm of blow back. There are stronger methods of making a tough-use knife.

 

[eveled]

I’m going to second the earlier recommendation of Buck 119.

It will do all you need.

 

[dirc]

Sorry, Urban legend. In other, gun related forums, one sometimes reads of firearms retained by LE prior to a legal proceeding as evidence that is later somehow "not found" ertc.

I have no solid source, just the hearsay anecdotes.

My suggestion is that a knife intended for self-defense to be mundane in character and not a fine piece of premium cutlery that one is attached to. My post is in no way intended to defame law enforcement officers in general or in particular.

just thought to share some links on this if anyone is interested

New Proof That Police Use Civil Forfeiture To Take From Those Who Can’t Fight Back

Across the U.S., law enforcement uses a process called civil forfeiture to take property without charging people with a crime. New research confirms that the targets are often people with the least ability to fight back.

www.forbes.com

Asset Forfeiture Abuse | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

www.aclu.org

Civil asset forfeiture: I'm a grandmother, not a drug lord. Why can police take my property?

It shouldn't take six years and the threat of legal action to be treated fairly. I hadn't been accused of any crime. I shouldn't have been punished.

www.usatoday.com

 

[goldie]

I find the choices odd given all the choices that are out there. I think the jet pilot knife is the worst of the three especially w that sheath it comes with .I think something like the Cold Steel Kobun Or similar tanto for defense would be a much better choice, has a slim sheath w metal clip, its light and much easier to carry, and you can get it serrated too.

 

[VorpelSword]

In an urban, around-the-town context, I'd be uncomfortable openly displaying a badass knife of any kind.

If I were really worried about self-defense in public; enough so that I was thinking of a dedicated fixed blade knife, I would be reconsidering what I was about and where I was going. If that evaluation still came up with a must-do conclusion, I'd be thinking of a concealed carry firearm with the paperwork necessary to keep it legal in my jurisdiction.

My EDC is a Leatherman Wave, worn in a horizontal belt pouch. Not much of a gut-ripping-throat-cutter. The horizontal pouch is generally openly visible but blends in with the body and belt. Deploys easily and goes back in and away with little fuss too.

 

[Harko]

just thought to share some links on this if anyone is interested

New Proof That Police Use Civil Forfeiture To Take From Those Who Can’t Fight Back

Across the U.S., law enforcement uses a process called civil forfeiture to take property without charging people with a crime. New research confirms that the targets are often people with the least ability to fight back.

www.forbes.com

Asset Forfeiture Abuse | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

www.aclu.org

Civil asset forfeiture: I'm a grandmother, not a drug lord. Why can police take my property?

It shouldn't take six years and the threat of legal action to be treated fairly. I hadn't been accused of any crime. I shouldn't have been punished.

www.usatoday.com

Thanks, civil forfeiture and came to my mind as well. Didn't know if that would be too "political" of an issue for the forums.

 

[Dano1987]

I recently was torn between getting the Ontario 498 or the 499. I went with the 499 but I wish I had the 498. The sheath on the 499 has exposed rivets on the inside which puts big nasty scratches and gouges on the blade. And the metal backing on the sheath is thin like aluminum foil. The sheath is just garbage. And it’s a nice looking knife but after you pull it out of the sheath once or twice the blade finish is literally destroyed.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Source please?

LEO for 35 years - never once seen or heard of legally owned property being permanently confiscated without cause. That would be called theft, and cops are not immune to such charges.

As a former LEO myself. It depends on the agency and the jurisdiction. There are numerous incidents where people had to sue agencies for their property to be returned.

In PA for instance, the state took the firearms that belonged to Eric Frien's parents and refused to give them back. The state was sued.

Pennsylvania cannot keep a cache of weapons seized from the parents of a gunman who killed one state trooper and permanently disabled another eight years ago, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

The parents of Eric Frein sued after authorities refused to return 25 rifles, 19 pistols and two shotguns that were taken from their home in September 2014, days after Frein ambushed the troopers outside a state police barracks in the Pocono Mountains.

Eugene Michael Frein and Deborah Frein were not charged in their son's crime — for which he was convicted and sentenced to death — and none of their weapons were used in his deadly late-night assault.

The Pike County district attorney, who was named as a defendant in the parents' suit, had argued that authorities had the right to hold the seized weapons, saying they might be needed as evidence during Eric Frein's state and federal appeals.

Court: Pennsylvania can't keep guns seized from parents of Eric Frein

The parents of Eric Frein sued after authorities refused to return 25 rifles, 19 pistols and two shotguns that were taken from their home.

www.cbsnews.com

There have been other cases too.

Derrick Washington has sued Cleveland police and the city to get back his gun, a weapon he says officers seized from him illegally in a case in which he was never charged.

Washington, 33, of Cleveland, says officers have held his .38-caliber Taurus since February. He filed a lawsuit in Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court last week seeking to make the city return the gun and pay tens of thousands of dollars in damages.

Gun lawsuit: Cleveland police refuse to return weapon of concealed-carry permit holder

Guns-rights advocates say the lawsuit is part of a trend of police departments making it increasingly difficult for residents to recover weapons that were seized, especially those guns taken without charges ever being filed.

www.cleveland.com

The Calguns Foundation announced today that it has reached a settlement with the City of San Francisco and the San Francisco Police Department in its case Churchill v. Harris, a federal lawsuit arising from law enforcement firearm return policies. The Foundation previously reached a negotiated settlement with the City of Oakland, which was also named in the suit. The controversy arose after the California Department of Justice changed the language it uses in its Law Enforcement Gun Release letters that are required when gun owners seek the return of their firearms after a law enforcement seizure.

With the settlement, San Francisco has implemented an updated policy on the return of unregistered firearms that are legally owned by someone who has presented a Law Enforcement Gun Release letter from the California DOJ. In addition, San Francisco agreed to reimburse the Foundation a portion of the legal fees and expenses of bringing this case to protect the rights of gun owners.

Cities of San Francisco, Oakland Settle CGF Federal Lawsuit on Return of Firearms

/PRNewswire/ -- The Calguns Foundation announced today that it has reached a settlement with the City of San Francisco and the San Francisco Police Department...

www.prnewswire.com

The police agencies apparently are relying on a state Department of Justice document that requires proof of ownership of each firearm before they are returned. But Don Kilmer, counsel for the plaintiffs, has noted that, “In California, the Evidence Code makes it clear that simple possession is proof of ownership of almost all types of common property, including firearms. The California Department of Justice is misleading police departments in such a way that they violate the rights of gun owners who were investigated and found to have not violated the law.”

“What the police departments are doing is a deliberate theft of personal property, and they know it,” said SAF Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb. “Our partners at the Calguns Foundation have properly argued that this is inexcusable, and they are right.

Churchill v. Harris Archives -

onlygunsandmoney.com

 

[shane45-1911]

M Miami_JBT

Please re-read my post. I said "permanently" confiscated. No where did I say that there would not be litigious action required to get that property back.

There's a huge difference between an officer taking someone's knife, putting it in his pocket and going home at the end of his shift - and putting seized property into evidence-lockup while legal matters play out.