Need your impression: BM 940-1 S90V and ZT 0770cf Elmax

miso2

miso2

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Nov 19, 2014
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Hi all,

I am torn between BM 940-1 Osborne (S90V) and ZT 0770cf (Elmax) for my next purchase. I realized from my last purchase of Manix 2 LW (S110V) that I like a good slicer with not only good edge retention but also lightweight. ZT knives were recommended as good slicers in my previous thread, but 0770cf seems the only lightweight option they offer. I like the look a lot. Then I found that BM offers the lightweight Osborne with S90V. From Jim Ankerson's review, they are both regarded highly as good EDC knives. But S90V seems a lot better for edge retention.

Price-wise, ZT 0770cf is a lot cheaper than the other ($150 vs $300 in Japan......)

Now, if you have experiences with both of them, what are your impressions on them, and which would you recommend given the price gap?
I would appreciate any input.


Miso
 
You have a third choice in ZT 0770CFM390. S90V holds its edge a bit longer than M390 but it's also harder to sharpen. Both the ZT & BM 940-1 are very light. BM 940-1 is slimmer with a longer blade. The ZTs have assisted opening flippers.
 
RamZar,

Thank you for the input. I would love to put the M390 version into consideration, but it is not available in Japan ATM......


asdf12345,

This will be my first BM or ZT knife, and I don't have any experience with either of the deployment methods. I guess the Axis lock is similar to the compression lock of Manix 2, but I am interested in a flipper, too.


By the way, my use will be regular house chores and occasional shaving, so pretty light.
 
Both the 0770 and 940 are great EDC knives. I have a 0770CF (CF handles and Elmax blade) and the regular 940 (aluminum handles and S30V blade).

If you are looking for a slicer, the 0770 may fit your needs better. Both the 0770 and 940 use the same thickness blade stock, but the primary bevel on the 940 is about half the height of the 0770. As such, it will be at a higher angle than the 0770, which will make it act more like a wedge, depending on what you are cutting. That said, the 940 with its CF handles and S90V blade still seems like a pretty sweet knife.

You really can't go wrong with either.

Manix2LW_ZT0770CF_BM940_800x465.jpg
 
Having owned a couple 940's as well as a 0770cf, I'd have to agree with flarp in saying that the ZT is a much better slicer, and in my experience also has better ergos. It might be worth waiting for the 0770cf in M390 to become available in Japan (I can't imagine it being that far off from now...), or if you really want to jump in, get the ELMAX 0770 and sell it once you can get your hands on an M390
 
flarp,

Thank you for the input and the picture! I am now leaning toward 0770.

Since you have the Manix 2 LW S110V as well, could you give me your impression on ZT's Elmax against it?
I own Stretch 2 ZDP-189 and thought that there wouldn't be a noticeable difference in edge retention between ZDP and S110V in my light use, but S110V really outperforms ZDP-189. And I like Manix 2 a lot because of that. I know that Elmax may not be that good, but I would be happy if it is close.
 
hookahhabib,

You made me to go for 0770cf. I will ask the shop, which has the Elmax version, if they can get the M390 version. Then I have to decide whether to wait or jump in.....
 
RamZar,

Thank you for the link. Yes, I am aware of his fantastic test and that ranking. According to the ranking, Elmax's edge retention would be as good as that of ZDP-189. But again, I would not cut that much abrasive stuff and thought Elmax may be comparable to even S110V in light use. If you have experiences on both (and many other steels on the list), let me know if their performances in real life follow the Ankerson's ranking or otherwise. I would be very interested to hear.


Miso
 
I really haven't used my Manix2 very much (just got it recently). I have, however, used my Native5 in S110V (Spyderco's 2013 forum knife) a fair amount. Assuming the performance is similar (same company, same steel, presumably same heat treat, similar blade profile), I'd say the S110V retains a hair-popping edge on par with ZDP-189 in my experience (comparing to the Caly3 CF). Elmax won't stay at that level of sharpness as long, but both Elmax and S110V will retain a good working edge (sharp enough to cleanly push cut through a notebook and copy paper) for quite a long time.

Based on my use cases, I'll touch up the edges on both the 0770CF and Native5 S110V at about the same frequency (about every other week). Both are still reasonably sharp at that point (definitely adequate for many EDC tasks), but I just do it as regular maintenance to get them back to hair-popping sharpness. One difference, though, is S110V (and ZDP-189) takes a LOT more passes on the Sharpmaker to touch up than Elmax.

Elmax does have a reputation for being extremely tough. I've not had either of them chip on me though, and both have hit the odd staple or nail, as well as cut plastic and nylon pallet straps and zip ties. S110V does have more carbon and less chromium, so it may be more susceptible to corrosion. I haven't had discoloration or rust on either though, and they've both ridden in my sweaty pockets in our long, hot, and humid summers.

For my purposes, there is little practical difference between S110V and Elmax. If I didn't do regular maintenance and just kept using them until they were completely dull, S110V sounds like it would last longer between re-sharpening. Or, if you really like hair-whittling sharpness (and who doesn't), S110V will stay at that level a bit longer than Elmax. For regularly maintained working knives, though, the difference likely won't be significant.

As RamZar pointed out, Ankerson has done some controlled tests to measure edge retention when cutting manilla rope, and he does run them until the edges are dull.
 
flarp,

Wow. Thank you for the very helpful and insightful post.

I do sharpen my knives almost biweekly (or at least used to, before S110V). So, Elmax might stay sharp and be OK for my use.
I will see whether the M390 version is available or not........
 
Oh, I found this video and now do not want the Elmax version if it's way behind even S30V for edge retention........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulQzcYT9Dds

Of course, I would not cut that much abrasive stuff, but still.......

At the moment, they don't have the M390 version or an interest to get them, so I have to wait for a while......
Anyway, thank you for your suggestions and opinions!!


Miso
 
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Well. I managed to get a 0770cf M390 from KnifeCenter.com Today!
What a beautiful knife......

Although the blade length is similar to Manix 2 LW, it feels much smaller particularly when closed.
And the thickness behind the edge is quite thin!!
I haven't sharpen it but am pretty sure that it will be a great slicer.

Thank you again, guys, for your input.
Now, I am looking at the new BM 485S as my first BM knife.......


Miso
 
Congrats Miso!

There will soon be a Benchmade 484-1 with a 3" blade of S90V and CF scales.

The new Benchmade 485 is also very nice and costs much less plus it has M390.
 
Ive got the 940-1, my first blade with s90v, and its the best slicer ive ever had. It holds an edge for a ridiculous amount of time , and it gets wicked sharp.

I love zero tolerance, but theres just something about a benchmade...
 
RamZar said:
Congrats Miso!

There will soon be a Benchmade 484-1 with a 3" blade of S90V and CF scales.

The new Benchmade 485 is also very nice and costs much less plus it has M390.
Click to expand...


Thanks, RamZar,

The new Nakamura looks indeed great, and the steel is nice, too.
Oh, another one in my wish list......


Miso
 
stonproject said:
Ive got the 940-1, my first blade with s90v, and its the best slicer ive ever had. It holds an edge for a ridiculous amount of time , and it gets wicked sharp.

I love zero tolerance, but theres just something about a benchmade...
Click to expand...



Oh.... I thought I got over with 940-1, but you made me to reconsider.
Three light BM folders on the wish list now......
Thanks,


Miso
 
The only thing I'd add to this conversation is that there's a rarity factor here you might not want to overlook. ZT went WAY out of its comfort zone to create a lightweight knife in the 0770CF. They seem to be following up on that trend with their new offerings. But how long that will last is anybody's guess. Benchmade, on the other hand, has made lightweight knives for a long time and it doesn't appear that they're going to slow down production of them anytime soon. So you should be able to buy lightweight Benchmades pretty much anytime you like. Lightweight ZTs, however, may be flash in the pan. You might want to get them while the getting is good.
 
bld522 said:
The only thing I'd add to this conversation is that there's a rarity factor here you might not want to overlook. ZT went WAY out of its comfort zone to create a lightweight knife in the 0770CF. They seem to be following up on that trend with their new offerings. But how long that will last is anybody's guess. Benchmade, on the other hand, has made lightweight knives for a long time and it doesn't appear that they're going to slow down production of them anytime soon. So you should be able to buy lightweight Benchmades pretty much anytime you like. Lightweight ZTs, however, may be flash in the pan. You might want to get them while the getting is good.
Click to expand...


That is true. "Be bold", "Build like a tank", "Overbuilt" are the words they like, and the lightweight sections is quite small in their catalog.

In that sense, I will keep my eye on 0450 this year and see if they offer a limited model with an appealing steal as well as new variants of 0770.

Hmm..... Maybe I should grab the M4 version right away when it becomes available.

Thank you for your insight.


Miso
 
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