Needing to get a lite weight tent and

Bivy sacks are prohibited where we are going due to bears. The bears don't recognise that a bivy sack means a person like they do a tent. To a bear a bivy sack looks like log and campers that are stepped on in the middle of the night don't always react properly. So a tent it wil be.
 
Heck, its been a while sense I've used a tent. I went tarp about 3 years ago and never looked back, much more versitile.
 
Got trees?
Hennessey Hammock:thumbup:
 
2dogs said:
Bivy sacks are prohibited where we are going due to bears. The bears don't recognise that a bivy sack means a person like they do a tent. To a bear a bivy sack looks like log and campers that are stepped on in the middle of the night don't always react properly. So a tent it wil be.
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:eek:

Where the heck is that? In the bear-y places I've packed (Glacier, Yellowstone, etc.) a noctural ursine camp visitor is truly bad news regardless of what volume of nylon taffeta you happen to be inside.

Assuming you are using established campgrounds (even backcountry sites) any bear knows that's human territory, therefore you are dealing with habituated bears - and that's always trouble sooner or later.
 
TDahlgren said:
:eek:

Where the heck is that? In the bear-y places I've packed (Glacier, Yellowstone, etc.) a noctural ursine camp visitor is truly bad news regardless of what volume of nylon taffeta you happen to be inside.
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I've never heard of that either. Do they also ban you from sleeping out under the stars? I had a bear crush a tent I had set up in my yard. If bears will rip apart cars for food your tent won't stop them.

I also recommend tarps for the summer, except when you will encounter bugs. I use one in the rockies when the weather is on the warmer side.
 
TD and others I guess I made it sound as if a tent would stop a bear. No of course it won't, nor will a camper shell or a trailer door. In Tahoe a few weeks ago a family came home and found a bear sitting on the floor of the kitchen with the contents of the refridgerator on its lap. It was picking out its favorite goodies. BTW the refer was a SubZero. The same bear came back a few days later and took two loads of 00buck in the face. No more bear problem.

All I can say is that bivy sacks are prohibited by policy and the reason given is that bears don't see bivy sacks as anything but a log. Our cooking and eating areas are well away from the sleeping areas and we use bear bags for everything food related including clothing. Tents are required for all campers.

I was just speaking to another scoutmaster tonight and he was telling me about 2 weeks ago he was awakened by a bear sniffing his freshly washed hair through his tent. He said it was the last time he will pack his wife's honey and raspberry shampoo.
 
mmmm, honey and raspberry....

I couldn't convince the wife that she needed to use unscented toiletries while in bush and she learned the hard way when bees and bears wouldn't leave her alone. :D
 
DarkenRahl said:
I've got the Hubba Hubba and it's awesome. It only gets a work out when I can lure a lass on whatever camping trip I'm going on. Otherwise I use this:


picJungleHammockRickAshworth.jpg


http://www.mosquitohammock.com/junglehammock.html
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How do you go with the sleeping position in Hammocks DarkenRahl? I'm thinking of getting one for my up-coming across Oz bike tour - the stealth camping aspect especially appeals to me - but I'm thinking I might struggle to get comfortable sleeping in that 'U' shape. What has been your experience?
 
I also have the Hubba Hubba and am very happy with it; a rock solid tent. However, it's a bit heavy and bulky for a pack tent. I haven't tried it with the fly only option but generally, if the weather is good enough for that option, I'd rather sleep under the stars. My problem is that in most of the areas I camp, bugs (read giant mosquitoes) make sleeping in anything other than a fully enclosed tent a miserable experience. Oh, and the Hubba Hubba, while intended as a two man tent is really about a 1.5 man tent. And, if your're 6'4", 245, it's a real nice one man tent. :)

I camp on the beach a lot so the hammock, while it would be ideal, won't fly. The tent tarp looks very interesting-- as long as it can keep the skeeters out. Lots of guys I know use a TentCot on the beach. It's pretty well suited to beach camping, but I can't see using it anywhere else.
 
2dogs said:
TD and others I guess I made it sound as if a tent would stop a bear.
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Actually, I didn't get that impression from your comment, more just what you repeated - that it was a rule of some campground somewhere. I was curious to know what place had made such a policy.

My other point was that it is a profoundly silly rule. Actually, not just silly, but plain stupid, even more so because it was made by people who are supposed to know better.

Bears routinely invading established campsites is a problem no matter how you slice it. Trying to minimize the problem by putting people in 'bigger' bags of fabric is asinine. Sure the bears may 'recognize' tents as people compartments, but they'll keep coming back and sooner or later they are going to figure out that those people are no immediate threat. Then one day that bear is going to smell something tasty inside a tent, or maybe be too old/tired to forage elsewhere, or maybe be previously injured and just plain pissed off. Then some poor fool camper, in a duly approved size of shelter, is going to get chewed upon mightily.

Catching a bear unaware and setting off a defensive reaction is bad enough, having one approach you, knowing you are there, in the middle of the night, is something else entirely. At that point playing dead is not going to save you, that bear is there for a reason and you yourself just might be it. Fending off a well armed attacker, who is pound-for-pound twice as strong as you, from a sound sleep, just isn't going to happen.

That policy of tolerating campground invasions, as opposed to a policy of hazing, or relocating habituated bears, is going to kill someone one day.
 
TDahlgren said:
Catching a bear unaware and setting off a defensive reaction is bad enough, having one approach you, knowing you are there, in the middle of the night, is something else entirely. At that point playing dead is not going to save you, that bear is there for a reason and you yourself just might be it. Fending off a well armed attacker, who is pound-for-pound twice as strong as you, from a sound sleep, just isn't going to happen.

That policy of tolerating campground invasions, as opposed to a policy of hazing, or relocating habituated bears, is going to kill someone one day.
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:thumbup: Well said. Caught unaware humans really don't stand much of a chance against mountain lions or bears. Toe to toe we still get our arses kicked. Thank God for opposable thumbs, large brains and gunpowder.
 
TDahlgren said:
That policy of tolerating campground invasions, as opposed to a policy of hazing, or relocating habituated bears, is going to kill someone one day.
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Amen!

I spent a week at a BSA camp in Colorado this summer and we had bear "visits" on several nights. The good news was they had rangers out patrolling every night, turning the bears away from the campsites with some kind of rubber/plastic bullets. There were two reports of females with cubs-- one had three cubs-- in the camp at night. Young kids and young bears... not a great mix.
 
I spent a weekend in Cades Cove Tennessee a few years back and was tormented by bears the entire time, almost got a ticket by a park ranger for throwing rocks at a bear that was eating up all of my food in front of both of us. I personally think there are enough black bears in North America to shoot every one caught in a campground. I have been told that it is where the bears live, I am just a visiter, my answer to that is when the bears catch me in the woods eating up all their mast then they can kill and eat me, and vice versa.:mad: Chris
 
In a way it's funny (strange) growing up back east I was as guilty as the next guy of not taking black bears seriously. Even moving out west I was less concerned. I lived two years in Browning MT and have probably spent in excess of 80 days inside Glacier. I've had multiple grizzly encounters - thankfully none serious, know a couple who were mauled by a mother w/cubs, and had one true scare from a black bear in the park.

The general attitude in Glacier was that seeing a black bear 'is a good thing' beacuse it means that it is unlikely that there are any grizzlies nearby. If there were any grizzlies neaby (so the thinking goes) then the black bears would be long gone as those two types do not get along well together. The scariest part about the black bear encounter I had was that he saw me, and was totally indifferent to my presence, he just went back to sniffing downed logs and slowly ambling away. At first you'd think this was ok. but if you dwell on it you'll see that any time a dangerous critter does not fear you then you are the one in jeopardy.

My concern was reinforced a couple years later while camping and hiking in Wrangel St. Elias NP. I was having a conversation with a park ranger when she explained how she was late to work that morning because a black bear was parked in her front yard and she couldn't leave. Seeing as how there were truly massive brown bears in the park I couldn't figure out the problem with a measly black bear. The ranger explained that, at least in 'her' park, the black bears were considered more dangerous than the browns.

This was so because the browns were more predictable. Being the bigger, dominant species they monopolized all the prime territory and as long as no one ventured into their exact fishing spot/berry patch the did not feel bothered or threatened, had no reason to range far afield, and were usually content to let everyone else breeze on by.

In contrast the black bears had a much harder time of it, living in more marginal territories where there was alot of pressure/competition and the need to always be moving and always be on edge. Essentially meaning that, in order to survive, any black bear had to be meaner and tougher, and therefore alot less predictable, than anything else on a size equivalent basis.

Realizing that this type of situation could develop on a limited basis, just about anywhere anytime there was inadequate resources or overpopulation/crowding has made me much more cautious in dealing with bears of any kind. They will all do whatever they think necessary to survive.
 
Sorry LongBow but it seems your tent thread has been hijacked. :) This bear thread should be a post unto itself as I'm sure most of use have a bear story or two to share.
 
TD I was relating the rule for the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico. It is 137,000 acres and of course is black bear habitat. If you killed all the bears that don't fear humans, or for the matter all the bears that don't fear humans in Yosemite and Yellowstone too, well...I don't really know what the result would be but it would not be pretty. I take my family camping in a part of the Sierras where problem bears from Yosemite are relocated to. Some of these convict bears cause more trouble and have to be killed. Most just disappear.

For the rest who want to belittle the policy, I am not a bear expert but I take the advice (and direction) from people who are. The policy is sleep in a tent, not a bivy sack. End of discussion for me. You can use up all the bandwidth you want arguing your point. Of course please post your credentials along with your argument. Otherwise you're just another poser
 
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