New 110 Handles/Scales

Pack Rat

Pack Rat

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Jan 27, 2006
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Whatever you want to call them, there has been some "how to" tidbits scattered throughout several different post, so thought maybe we could have some comments about them in a how to mode.

Specifically, the stabilizing techniques and the actual making and replacing.

How do you cut/size them and so forth.

I have watched all of the comments and seen the pics and I guess I am in "wimp factor stage one" for taking one 110 apart. But since 334 talked about the chestnut, I got to thinking about the mesquite and maybe some of the other harwoods and it might be fun to play with. As if I needd another hobby..:rolleyes:

so whacha think? (oh yeah...even have one of them mealer sealers)
 
...LOL...So ya gots one o' dem "mealer sealers" huh???...LMAO...What more do ya need right??...Well Here's how I goes abouts' stabilizin' when I needs some stability.
First off...when ya use a vacuum sealer used for food, it probably is NOT a good idea to ever use it for that purpose again if used to stabilize porous materials as I do. I have one that's dedicated to being used for food and another that I found at a garage sale for $5...The $5 one is only used for goofin' around in the garage or patio when I want to make some wood impervious to moisture or oil, such as in stabilizing knife scales.
What I use is the following:
1 quart mason jar with ring and lid
1 quart Minwax super duper wood hardener
Old pot for boiling water
Vacuum sealer
scales

Take the scales and place them in the 1 quart jar.

Pour in the minwax til the scales are covered. (They will float so I use a couple of old meat grinder plates to hold them below the level of the minwax. These are the sharpened plates that I'm sure you're familiar with if you grind any game meat.)

I set the jar (with the scales and minwax) in a pot of boiling water and let it heat for about 45 minutes. It doesn't have to be boiling...just keep it at a slow simmer. This opens the pores of the wood and allows the minwax to penetrate deeper during the next stage.

Remove the jar from the pot and place a lid, with a hole punched in it that was covered with electrical tape, on top of the jar and follow with a ring that is snugged up and then backed off slightly.

Place the jar in a large Foodsaver container large enough to hold it.

Form a vacuum using the Foodsaver and remove the jar.

Now you can snug up the ring a bit tighter.

I let the jar sit now for a few hours. I let it cool a bit, loosen the ring and then re-vacuum to assure the seal and the vacuum. At this point I'm done with it for a week or so.

After a week, I remove the scales and let them dry out completely. I just leave them alone for another week or two. When dry they will not resemble what they were as for graininess. The pores are completely filled with the resin and they can be worked as you see fit. The grain's appearance is really enhanced and darkens only slightly if at all. Seems like a lot of foolin' around but it's easy as all get out and I usually have enough to keep me occupied while I wait...LOL...See?...Easy...:D
 
Pack Rat said:
...we could have some comments about them in a how to mode.

Specifically, the stabilizing techniques and the actual making and replacing.

How do you cut/size them and so forth.
Click to expand...

Pack Rat, I wanted to experiment so instead of using a 110 I found some SAKs for $3. each:o. I used the scales on it for a pattern and just took my time with files and sandpaper to match the originals.

I read somewhere on BF that using thin Super Glue(Dollar Store) works for sealing and stabilizing the wood. I think a search will produce the technique in detail but...use a rubber glove and your finger to rub it into the wood, dry and sand lightly...repeat as needed. 600 grit and 0000 fine steel wool for finish. Use the same glue to put scales on knife. Preston

Here's the parts...


and the finished knife...
 
Thanks, Darryl, a 110 it is not;) !

I have not attempted the 110 and probably won't because I think you really need that press that Trax has to put the pins back in the bolsters...properly:eek:.

My interests have shifted and while I'd like to do 110s I have plenty of other stuff to occupy my time and $$$$$$$. I'm content for awhile:rolleyes: . Preston
 
pjsjr said:
Pack Rat, I wanted to experiment so instead of using a 110 I found some SAKs for $3. each:o. I used the scales on it for a pattern and just took my time with files and sandpaper to match the originals.

I read somewhere on BF that using thin Super Glue(Dollar Store) works for sealing and stabilizing the wood. I think a search will produce the technique in detail but...use a rubber glove and your finger to rub it into the wood, dry and sand lightly...repeat as needed. 600 grit and 0000 fine steel wool for finish. Use the same glue to put scales on knife. Preston

Here's the parts...


and the finished knife...
Click to expand...



That sure does look nice compared to the usual red plastic. I have a question. When you used the thin CA to soak in the wood, did you have any problems with the CA crazing and making a crust as the excess boils off? But then I guess you just sanded lightly to remove that. What you did is one method for fuelproofing firewalls for R/C airplanes. When it does not all get absorbed in before it cooks, you get crust. One thing, depending on how dense and porous the wood is, the CA does not soak in as deep as you might imagine. If heaven forbid you drop your knife on a sharp rock or something, you might actually puncture the "shell" with a dent in the wood. Just for fun you could take a piece of material, soak and finish like what you did, and cut it in half to look @ how deep you got the CA. Then you would know for sure.
 
pjsjr said:
Thanks, Darryl, a 110 it is not;) !

I have not attempted the 110 and probably won't because I think you really need that press that Trax has to put the pins back in the bolsters...properly:eek:.

My interests have shifted and while I'd like to do 110s I have plenty of other stuff to occupy my time and $$$$$$$. I'm content for awhile:rolleyes: . Preston
Click to expand...

Why not remove the bolsters altogether?
http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/detail/418/235

I know only one end is removed, but you get the idea. What about using different wood for the bolsters and scales? Like say... Ebony (rosewood might be nice too) for bolsters, and maple burl for scales? Just throwing an idea out there.
 
gixxer said:
Hey Darryl, why use a lid with a hole punched in it??
Click to expand...

...gixxer...The hole in the lid is covered with electrical tape or any tape that is NOT porous. The vacuum is then created with the foodsaver. To open the mason jar and not damage the lid ( to reuse it a few times ) you merely lift the piece of tape and the vacuum is broken. The lid then comes off without having to bend it and make it un-useable...
 
Everyone has their own idea of "How To" replace the scales, but here's some observations/measurements...

This is a pair of Idaho 110 "handles" [scales+liners] that I have left over from a project...and some of the rivets...



OK! You can see that the rivets holding the scales to the liners are backwards from most knives...Buck inserts the rivet from the outside and crimps it over on the inside...Buck uses round headed hollow brass rivets... .060" diameter shaft...the inside of the liner, where the hollow part of the rivet is crimped, has a slight countersink...

So...Buck obviously assembles the scale to the liner before installing the blade, spacer, backspring, and spring. The brass rivets used to fasten the spacer and blade measure .130" dia when disassembled...I use .125" brass rod from Jantz and "crush" it in place with an arbor press...but others have used a vise or even a hammer...the steel rivet measures .121", and is a slip fit in the liners...the ends are peened to keep it from falling out...

I mill off the steel rivet head to poke it out, and just press out the brass pins with the press and a 1/8" short drift...

I replace the 1/16" brass scale rivets with brass nails from the hardware store...but be careful: some "brass nails" are labeled brass but are plated steel...take a magnet with you...

It's really easy to take a 110/112 apart to replace the scales...the second time... :D
 
gixxer said:
When you used the thin CA to soak in the wood, did you have any problems with the CA crazing and making a crust as the excess boils off? But then I guess you just sanded lightly to remove that. What you did is one method for fuelproofing firewalls for R/C airplanes. When it does not all get absorbed in before it cooks, you get crust. One thing, depending on how dense and porous the wood is, the CA does not soak in as deep as you might imagine.
Click to expand...

gixxer, I didn't notice any crazing or crust...it dries real fast and I put on light coats...about six to eight on both sides and sanded in-between each. I know that this is just a light coating and not much is absorbed into the wood.

If'n I were to do much of this I would use Darryl's process:thumbup: ...it's much more professional and penetrating:).

Thanks for you comments...a bolsterless 110 might be possible, even from me:rolleyes: . Preston
 
Thanks for the time you guys took to respond to this. Will take me some time to digest it all.

I am still trying to figure out pulling the vacuum with the sealer. If the wood is immersed in the minwax why pull a vacuum? Doesn't seem at that point, moisture would be a big factor.

But the jar in the boiling water does make sense for opening the pores in the wood.

Also, I gather CA is an abbreviation for cyanoacrylate or super glue.

Rich,,,Thanks for the breakdowns... Question.. When the scales come off do the pins stay or do they pull off also?

Nice Job for sure on the sak Pres...

I am still digesting all of this guys....Thanks...

A friend was by here earlier and I was telling him about all of this. He reminded me of some strips of walnut paneling he gave me some time back that might work for some of this tinkering. Its plenty thick and I remember a lot of grain.
 
Pack Rat said:
I am still trying to figure out pulling the vacuum with the sealer. If the wood is immersed in the minwax why pull a vacuum? Doesn't seem at that point, moisture would be a big factor.
Click to expand...

:) It's done to totally impregnate the wood with the resins. It's about what they do to the canvas or linens or papers when making micarta except that I can't generate nearly as much pressure as they do. That's where the lengthy wait comes in. By the time its done, instead of just penetrating the surface, the resins have penetrated the entire piece of wood, thus the long "drying" time as well. Scales done like this are virtually imperious to anything soaking in to cause cracking or swelling after they are placed on the knife.There is some swelling from absorbing all that resin so the scales I've done were only roughly cut to size.
 
Pack Rat said:
Rich,,,Thanks for the breakdowns... Question.. When the scales come off do the pins stay or do they pull off also?
Click to expand...

You have to remove the rivets to pull the scales off...and press out the pins to get the handle apart to get at the rivet crimps...

I drill the hollow crimp out to remove the scale...the rivet is discarded...if you grind/mill the head off, then you could pull the scale off without disassembly, but then you gotta get the rivet out, since it's not long enough (after grinding/milling the head off)...the rivets are not an interference fit, if that's what you're asking...
 
Thanks Darryl,,, I got it....:thumbup: Headed out to the garage sales.. :cool:

Rich... So if I want a non rivet scale.... (which I like a lot) I could grind off the rivet and rocker pin heads and then pull the handle off leaving the pins.

Then grind down the pins/rivets some and countersink a matching hole on the back side of the scale just enough to hold the scale in place. Thus not totally removing the rivets and maybe providing a slight more holding area for adhesive... I can see some different ways to do it... Be fun to piddle with.

Now I just gotta get some beaters to play with for starters. Headed out to the flea mkts... Lots of those cheep pakadammitstani clones to experiment on.....

cool info guys...thanks for putting it all in one place
 
Pack Rat said:
Lots of those cheep pakadammitstani clones to experiment on.....
Click to expand...

Hey, I just spent 4 months in that place! You shouldve told me, I wouldve picked up a couple dozen!! OK, maybe I wasnt in THAT place so to speak, but it sure felt like it.
 
gixxer said:
Hey, I just spent 4 months in that place! You shouldve told me, I wouldve picked up a couple dozen!! OK, maybe I wasnt in THAT place so to speak, but it sure felt like it.
Click to expand...

If you were in any of the surrounding communities, Glad you are back here safe! And thanks for your service!
 
DarrylS said:
:) It's done to totally impregnate the wood with the resins. It's about what they do to the canvas or linens or papers when making micarta except that I can't generate nearly as much pressure as they do. That's where the lengthy wait comes in. By the time its done, instead of just penetrating the surface, the resins have penetrated the entire piece of wood, thus the long "drying" time as well. Scales done like this are virtually imperious to anything soaking in to cause cracking or swelling after they are placed on the knife.There is some swelling from absorbing all that resin so the scales I've done were only roughly cut to size.
Click to expand...

Immersion would work, but it would take one hell of a longer time. The vacuum significantly cuts down the time, like to nothing!
 
Mike Kerins said:
Immersion would work, but it would take one hell of a longer time. The vacuum significantly cuts down the time, like to nothing!
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike :thumbup:

I did have one other question...well at least for now....

What exactly is "Minwax super duper wood hardener" just so I won't look like a total idiot at the local Homie De Pot. Well more n usual that is...:o
 
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