New 31 vs Lightly Used 21?

colubrid said:
This is a rant here for people that been around. Personally I would not touch the 31.


The best Sebenzas are the earlier ones. Look at the Regular before the 21. Easier to take apart and reassemble. Screws on only one side. Lockbar easier to open and they did not travel over as quick as the 21. The Regulars also didn't have the washers with the holes in em.

I wish they just started making the Regular Sebenza again. They would make a lot of money if they put the original design (WITH the solid washers!!!!!!!!) out for sale again.
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Wish I could “LOVE” this post like on FB....lol. AMEN
 
Evany said:
Not my first CRK by long shot. I've owned and sold on one of the early ATS34 models as well as Regulars and 21s. I regret every one I sold, especially my first from 1993. These days I have Lg and Sm CF 21s and a Lg Micarta Inkosi. I find I miss the visual simplicity of the PJ versions and the way they develop patina and character as they get used, so a large PJ 21 or 31 is what I'm thinking about. I'd love a Regular, but the prices are too high for me, plus as a lefty, they don't come along very often. This thread has given me a lot to think about.
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Based solely on this statement. I think the Lg. 21 is what would fit best. Get it while you can and getting a lefty will likely be easier now than in the future. You will be able to pick up a 31 for many years to come.
 
Just purchased a NIB lefty PJ Insingo 21 with a birth date of 2015. I guess the Insingo blade tilted the balance for me. It was on the big auction site and the seller accepted a reasonable offer. I'll try the 31 down the line, maybe when they start using the S45VN. I was looking for a user, but it's kind of cool that it's 5 years old, yet NIB. Hope I can bring myself to put those first scratches on...

Now the wait begins.
 
colubrid said:
This is a rant here for people that been around. Personally I would not touch the 31.


The best Sebenzas are the earlier ones. Look at the Regular before the 21 . Easier to take apart and reassemble. Screws on only one side. Lockbar easier to open and they did not travel over as quick as the 21. The Regulars also didn't have the washers with the holes in em.

I wish they just started making the Regular Sebenza again. They would make a lot of money if they put the original design (WITH the solid washers!!!!!!!!) out for sale again.[/QU
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The Regular is a great knife in its own regard but I think most of the hype with it are because of its rarity compared to the 21 nowadays. Every regular that I owned always had lock stick and overall just was not as refined as the 21.
 
I had good luck with both my Regulars. Slight lock stick, but a not an issue for me. The fact that they could be instantly converted into cash here on the Exchange was just too tempting. Something else came up that I wanted and well, I caved. Whatever it was I don't even remember, just miss the Regs. I did find that the sharpish points on the scales tended to dig into my fingers during hard use, but I really loved the minimalism of the design and the blade shape is kind of half way between the Insingo and DP, pretty great.

Now that I've committed to a 2015 21, I wonder if there's actually any difference (other than the packaging) between the most recent 21s and back then.
 
Ya, Ill eventually get another regular when I have some disposable cash but definitely not paying 1k for one. My crk grail is just a plain regular with raindrop Damascus. Those older Damascus blades were so nice looking.
 
This exactly!
ForestRoamer said:
I will never forget passing up on a used Large Regular bg42 on Ebay in 2008 for $250. I preferred the look of the 21 and didn't realize that in only a short time the Regulars would be hard to find (at the time they were still in stock at many dealers). I bought a 21 and absolutely loved it, but I always regretted not picking up a Regular while they were still widely available at very reasonable prices. Either way you'll be getting a great knife, but before you know it the 21's will probably be hard to find and much more expensive than the 31's. Buy what you like and you'll be happy.
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Evany said:
I had good luck with both my Regulars. Slight lock stick, but a not an issue for me. The fact that they could be instantly converted into cash here on the Exchange was just too tempting. Something else came up that I wanted and well, I caved. Whatever it was I don't even remember, just miss the Regs. I did find that the sharpish points on the scales tended to dig into my fingers during hard use, but I really loved the minimalism of the design and the blade shape is kind of half way between the Insingo and DP, pretty great.

Now that I've committed to a 2015 21, I wonder if there's actually any difference (other than the packaging) between the most recent 21s and back then.
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I have had the exact opposite experience. The 21's I owened always gave me grief . With the fat lockbar traveling over to far too soon to suit my tastes.. And never liked the funky washers with the holes in them to supposedly hold the CRK grease. My Regulars never get oil changed and stay smooth as a babys butt. But those 21's with the funky washers get sticky fast when the grease dies out. I still have some Regulars but only one 21 now (large Wilson Combat) and will probably sell it.

Owned probably close to 15-20 regulars (if you count small and large) . I don't even want to venture into the 31's. I like my CRK's simple. That was the original plan behind the design. new and refined is NOT better.
 
Large plain 21 now, and an S45VN in whatever version suits your fancy in a couple years or so.
 
colubrid said:
I have had the exact opposite experience. The 21's I owened always gave me grief . With the fat lockbar traveling over to far too soon to suit my tastes.. And never liked the funky washers with the holes in them to supposedly hold the CRK grease. My Regulars never get oil changed and stay smooth as a babys butt. But those 21's with the funky washers get sticky fast when the grease dies out. I still have some Regulars but only one 21 now (large Wilson Combat) and will probably sell it.

Owned probably close to 15-20 regulars (if you count small and large) . I don't even want to venture into the 31's. I like my CRK's simple. That was the original plan behind the design. new and refined is NOT better.
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I agree. When CRK had the 50% lockup spec, they were all very consistent. I got a new 21 recently and it’s about 80%. Ridiculous....! No wonder they went to the ball lockup as they were getting Very Inconsistent. Don’t even get me started on Edge Grinds..... Also liked the solid washers as well. Hardly ever had to lube them.
 
colubrid said:
This is a rant here for people that been around. Personally I would not touch the 31.


The best Sebenzas are the earlier ones. Look at the Regular before the 21. Easier to take apart and reassemble. Screws on only one side. Lockbar easier to open and they did not travel over as quick as the 21. The Regulars also didn't have the washers with the holes in em.

I wish they just started making the Regular Sebenza again. They would make a lot of money if they put the original design (WITH the solid washers!!!!!!!!) out for sale again.
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100 Percent agree with this. The Regular Sebenza's were the sweetest and simplest to use and take apart. Why on earth mess with perfection? Why CRK? Now I have to be fair and say even though I highly regret selling mine years ago, the Sebenza 21 for me and my hands was more ergonomic than the Regular. However in every other category (especially blade dimensions ((height)) the Regular wins.
This statement is true with the original Umnumzaan. Why of why Chris Reeve did you ever on God's green earth change it in any way? Simplemente perfection - the OP distinct pivot, the NO Idaho Made stamp, NO funky over travel stop, and heavier stonewash and S30V blade, with screws on one side (except for pivot). Why oh why change perfection?!

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P and Regular sebenzas are where it’s really at for me, but I still love the 21. I too prefer the simplicity of those models, although I don’t consider a 21 busy or complicated. It just seemed to me like it was an effort to address every little aspect of chamfering, angling, etc. I do like the Classic Sebenza but don’t care much for the classic stamped on it. With that said, good call on buying a 21 first.
 
loon#r and nearly everyone else--I totally agree both about Regulars and the 21 vs earlier Sebs. The Idaho Made and the Classic engraving really detracted from the purity of the design IMO. Same goes for the 21's extra chamfering, though it's pretty subtle. Still all in all, the 21 has a lot of the integrity of the originals, and there's the option of an Insingo blade, which I find very useful.
 
Yeah think you made the right choice in the 21. :thumbsup: Something makes me a little nervous about trusting the whole blade to a tiny ball. Wouldn't there be more chance of the lockbar moving side to side thus creating momentum for the ball to roll (across button but blade tang where it meets)? Perhaps this is only in theory as seems to work on the Umnumzaan. Strange because pretty much every other knife company uses straight lock bar contacting with blade tang in their frame locks.
 
Gilbert G said:
Yeah think you made the right choice in the 21. :thumbsup: Something makes me a little nervous about trusting the whole blade to a tiny ball. Wouldn't there be more chance of the lockbar moving side to side thus creating momentum for the ball to roll (across button but blade tang where it meets)? Perhaps this is only in theory as seems to work on the Umnumzaan. Strange because pretty much every other knife company uses straight lock bar contacting with blade tang in their frame locks.
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I think you nailed it here. It's been working well on the Umnumzaan since 2008 and on the 25/Inkosi after that. I think it's a natural progression and greatly improves the life of the knife now that the lock arm has no wear on it.
 
colubrid said:
I like my CRK's simple. That was the original plan behind the design. new and refined is NOT better.
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I think the 31 is simpler than models that came before it. Personal taste does play a massive role in things. I would guess that we all feel more comfortable with what we had initially and will rationalize that in any way.

For example, I always had double sided hardware and even requested new hardware installed for knives that didn't have it. Why? Because I'm much happier sticking another wrench on the other side than grabbing a bit of rubber to hold it in place.
 
Josh K said:
I think you nailed it here. It's been working well on the Umnumzaan since 2008 and on the 25/Inkosi after that. I think it's a natural progression and greatly improves the life of the knife now that the lock arm has no wear on it.
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Actually I was saying the opposite. I agree with the guy who said sometimes new and refined is NOT better. I've heard some cases where the Umnumzaan lock has failed and much less people own 25's/Inkosi's than regular 21's so the chances of occurrence must be much less but doesn't mean they wouldn't happen more (lock fail).

After being out of the CRK game for a bit and then coming back to hear about the release of the 31 and seeing the changes they made, it makes me scratch my head. Why? The original Umnumzaan was a masterpiece of perfection and they changed many things since then. Now the 31 has had reports of lock rock, lock rock!:eek: On a brand new Sebenza?! It almost is astounding to me when the company is known for its perfection and reliability. Some people note the detent ball creates a divet in the bottom of blade tang and that seems highly worrisome.

I would normally agree with you on the double sided hardware but CRK does the single sided oh so good. Never had any issue, makes for a quicker easier experience of taking apart and together again, and just plain love the pure simplistic look of it.

Progression is good but only in some cases like the Hinderer xm-18 for example. They updated the internal pivot action system to allow for 3 variations but didn't change the overall dimensions, or outward details of the xm-18. It's perfect and in this case they made it even better.
 
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