New American high performance steels.

Oh my.....BG42 didn't "fall out of favor" with users. Check the prices on e-Bay for BG-42 knives. They are IN favor. It's just that BG42 costs more to work with and therefore is not as profitable for the knife company.

As to powder......I don't think you can lump all "powder steels" together.

Apparently, there have been and still are some that can be called "premium" (read this thread and use the links provided to hear about some......I can give you more when you're done with that). But......S30V is the economy steel for manufacturers--the one that results in the highest profits.

And, it works pretty good--especially with the Buck heat treat.

That's the story on that.
 
BG42EDGE said:
LOL! I know the feeling.

However, now I have a laptop and I can just unplug it and keep on working on battery until the storm passes.

;)
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Excuse me please for the time of my break.
It was one hour of thunder, half of an hour it was rain, and two young enamored people (man and woman) were killed by a lightning in the very center of Saint-Petersburg.
They tried to find a shelter under the high lonely tree.
If I remember clearly, BG42 EDGE has promised to me to correct my mistakes with my English if I have done them.
I would say to him please , do not hesitate to do it.
 
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Actually, Gary.......you're doing very, very well.

Minor, minor problems with the way a few things are phrased.

Much better than Vasilli (and far more gentle and kind).

:D
 
Thanks for your opinion , I actually think I have to do many more efforts with my English.
Excuse me please, I didn't really catch the sense of your words: "the Vorpal blade? "
What does it really mean?
 
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It's a reference to English literature. Lewis Carroll, "The Jabberwocky."

Roughly translated, it's a blade of supernatural sharpness.

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
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Don't ask me what galumphing means.

:D
 
:) forgive the lack of clarity in my previous statement; I meant that it seemed to fall out of favor with manufacturers and makers. It is quite apparent that it never fell out of favor with end users.
 
All difficult, low profit steels have fallen out of favor with manufacturers who depend on volume.

You can roll out the S30V in sheets and stamp out the blanks quick and easy and it's quick and convenient to work and shape.

That's what they need.
 
a very interesting and enlightening thread.
After spending a couple hours reading his old threads and his research, I greatly appreciate the contribution that nozh has given to this forum.

Without pointing ANY fingers, all too often fanboys and companies blowing hot air around blurs reality with their subjective perceptions to protect their investments/reputations/marketing hype.

I just wish Nozh could type English better so as to not be misunderstood. Sad indeed.

I do enjoy my buck in 440c. Look forward to a 420HC blade when the opportunity arises.
 
As an aside.... Could one imagine a production Vorpal blade as one that holds a ridiculously razor sharp edge capable of push cutting toilet paper after cutting a metric ton of cardboard. With the capability to bend 90 degrees when a 1000 lbs of lateral force is applied and still spring back true?
 
Sorry, I guess the push cutting toilet paper was a bit much. How about hair shaving sharp after cutting a quarter of a standard ton ;) Btw I don't think lightsabers bend!
 
I really think that now and then the knives companies could produce the limited edition knives with the Hi-Tec steels on their blades.
Small series for instance of 200 , 500 or 1000 pieces would be interesting for collectors and for fans of the new types of steels, and it could be sold pretty fast.
But another question is how efficiently it is for technological processes of those companies.
 
Apparently they can't make enough money doing things like that, Gary.......many have asked about it and it hasn't happened.

We can only hope, but hope is fading.
 
zrfunited said:
Sorry, I guess the push cutting toilet paper was a bit much. How about hair shaving sharp after cutting a quarter of a standard ton ;) Btw I don't think lightsabers bend!
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have you ever seen a light saber hit a mirror? It can get pretty ugly.
 
goes to show you only have to up set jest one mod ...
warnings are to be heeded
he seemed to be fairly ok with me
i know some times others use language not in standard with us speek of english
many times i does not use it rite either
i discovered der are many steel snobs in hideing and jest bring de subject up
brings dem outa the wood work faster then mice running from a wood pile when ya gets to the bottom

yup i'ds like to see some diffrent steels in my 110 ... but
gosh darn it i dont depend on my dinner comeing from others buying it
jest glad buck is still with us ...
still ... humm i seems i runs outa shed juce ....
hate to make a trip up north jest fer that
but ... could be i finds some here in texas some wares...
 
David Martin said:
Nozh, Reread your post and tell us what your trying to say? The steel is a S30V look a like. I've made knives from S60V and can see why Buck didn't give chase. The stuff is time comsuming,nasty to grind and work with and does not mirror polish well. Not to mention tricky to heat treat. Buck is more conservative in their approach to steels and liberal in their shapes and knife styles. I'm glad because in the final analysis the hype and gain is passed along to the customer. Plus, if you'd look closer I think I could name 10 different steels Buck has used in the last 15yrs.. DM
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I agree with this and would add that Buck is one of those companies that seems to realize that the majority of 'real world' knife users don't run around with a razor sharp knife with no nicks and no real evidence that the knife is actually used! Most real world knife users run around with a knife in their pocket with just a vague semblance of an edge on them and when most people do that what difference does it make if the steel is 420HC or S90V. Both will dull from cutting into dirt or from trimming off glue from a clay pot nicking the clay all the way around or from cutting out old caulking from a window to help make it easier to remove. The fact is in these real uses of knives 420HC would likely hold up just as well and still cut just as well as any so called super steel. When it comes right down to it thinking about this my Buck 110 with a 420HC blade makes shorter work of a lot of tasks than many of my other knives with supposedly better steel for the blade. The difference I see is in the blade grind geometry which in the Buck is simply better in the 110 than it is in many much more expensive knives. Buck does a good job making what they use work and they've found a good way to grind most of their USA made products to get the most out of the steel they have used which all adds up to a great user for people that actually use their knives.

STR
 
I agree (and have always said) that for most everyday tasks, the average user wouldn't be able to tell the difference in 420HC and a so-called supersteel.

However, the statement made was that it might be worth it for Buck to check out "Carpenter CTS-XHP and new Capenter CTS-BD30V."

DM's response was "The steel is a S30V look a like."

Maybe I could agree with that, but I'd have to hear some explanation of what the writer means and hear some evidence to back it up.

Apparently the tester's tests have led him to believe that those steels are not S30V look a likes.
 
Apparently the tester's tests have led him to believe that those steels are not S30V look a likes.
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CTS-XHP is carpenters new take on the old stainless d2 called 440XH. The new carpenter version is a cleaner steel using powder technology. It's mostly justa higher chromium D2 by chemistry numbers but it is cleaner ( imo) and has the powder steel process advantages.

CTS-BD30P is the one that is similar in some ways to S30V. It's got a few minor changes like some tungsten, and cobalt but it also has 4% vanadium. I have one knife in that steel and I'd say it performs a lot like S30V. I haven't pushed it hard or conducted tests like some do but it seems very nice. I thinned it down, and finished it at around 8,000 -10,000 grit and found it also to be a very clean,with a nice grain structure. Carpenter seems to be serious about getting in the cutlery world and are producing their own versions of some favorites.

Re BG42: It's been a Latrobe product and has wait times of a year or more at times. It's also very expensive. It's a stainless, high speed bearing steel that's known for it's purity and clean, consistency. It is my favorite steel for old custom shop 110's and wish they still offered it. I understand why they don't. Latrobe was never really interested in the cutlery market.

The good news is Carpenter will be introducing a version of it with the same clean vacuum melting technology process ( VimVar) as well as powder processing it. We'll get to see how that works out eventually. It should be more available anyway through Carpenter ( who also bought Latrobe recently IIRC).


Also note that all these steels have to be laser or water jet cut and are never really going to be suitable for mass production like steels that are stamped out of sheets, ie: 440A, 420j, 420hc, etc.This increases costs greatly and as has been stated it's questionable if these are needed or appreciated by the majority of knife users who find all the performance they need in Buck's excellent basic 110. I like playing with lots of new steels but have no problem going to work with a basic 110 . I admit that I like the CPM 154 Bass pro version better but in reality the extra performance is nice, but not necessary.

Joe
 
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Thanks much. That's a copy and paste to the steel files for me.

We need more informative comments like that and fewer "S30V look-alike" comments.

My first impression was probably correct then--that Buck wouldn't be interested in these steels because they wouldn't be suited to Buck's mass production business plan. It's too bad, but things are what they are, I guess.

So it goes. The 420HC and S30V will have to do......for me, that means 420HC and OLD knives of 440C because I have an intuitive dislike for S30V (maybe it was the marketing that seemed to have an excess of hype). I will not use my 110s of BG-42 since they are the last of their kind.

Maybe Buck's new advertising slogan should be "Common Steels for the Common Man--PERIOD."

Put me down for that one in your contest, 110Dave.

:)
 
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